POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

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POLL: What is fair value for this 1949 Meter cover?

1. Approx Zero
5
6%
2. $1 or so
15
18%
3. 5 Bucks
11
13%
4. 10 Bucks
2
2%
5. About $10
5
6%
6. About $25
8
10%
7. About $50
7
9%
8. About $100
7
9%
9. About $125
2
2%
10. About $250
7
9%
11. About $500
1
1%
12. About $750
3
4%
13. About $1,000
1
1%
14. About $1,125
2
2%
15. About $1,500
1
1%
16. About $2,500
3
4%
17. About $5,000
0
No votes
18. About $10,000
0
No votes
19. About $25,000
2
2%
20. More
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 82

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POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by ozstamps »

We all know China POSTAGE STAMPS get good prices, often $1000+ for better items.

How about meter franks?

This 1949 commercial cover to Sydney I'd have tossed in the bin, or a junk box 2 years back.

These days is that still the same? I've never had a meter cover from anywhere, in 30 years of dealing that sold for more than $1.

Common Shanghai origin, common commercial Sydney destination. No backstamps. Toned, creased, tatty.

Not from a President or to a film star. No sender shown and receipent of no interest.

How much value would you place on it if you had it?

That is this week's poll. Vote away!

Image

Image

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by Jack »

'I've never had a meter cover from anywhere, in 30 years of dealing that sold for more than $1. '

I'll have all your Kuwait / Bahrain / Qatar / independent Emirate / Oman 1950 and 1960s meter covers at a $1 please :)

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by mrboggler »

Glen it looks like from the early votes, both you and I are going to have to revisit our Dollar boxes very soon. :?
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by Jack »

1953 Kuwait meter catalogue value - and achieved - is $100 (that's for Glen to know that some meter marks are worth money.

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by ozstamps »

mrboggler wrote:Glen it looks like from the early votes, both you and I are going to have to revisit our Dollar boxes very soon. :?
Dollar Boxes?

I'll check my council green re-cyling Otto bin for this type of thing!

However "$1 or so" has the most votes above so far.

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by luvthecmonwealth »

Well, with China these days, one hardly knows!
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by aethelwulf »

If the 2 people who voted $2,500 feel they would pay that much for items like this, could they please contact me and I'll see what I can source. :mrgreen:
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by ozstamps »

We are flying to Shanghai for Xmas (literally) and our tickets are $2500 each, so yes I'd be delighted to act as buying agent for those well heeled votees. (Who oddly have stayed silent on the thread!)

Glen

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by luvthecmonwealth »

aethelwulf wrote:If the 2 people who voted $2,500 feel they would pay that much for items like this, could they please contact me and I'll see what I can source. :mrgreen:
I'm one of them. I personally wouldn't pay that much, but China prices have gone so gangbusters lately I took a higher guess this time around!
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by aethelwulf »

When it comes to predicting what will Chinese buyers go for, and the sky-high prices they might go to for items, Churchill's statement about what he thought the Soviet Union's plans for WWII would be comes to mind:
It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma
.

Some things you know are liquid: early Imperial and PRC stamps, full sheets, 1970s M/S. Something more left-field: sometimes it falls flat, other times it goes well as its unusual. That's the lure of eBay, put something up and see what happens.

Spink held a one-owner sale last January for a collection of Mongolia. A ragged corner with a great chunk off one side was estimated at HKD$50-60,000, and made $3 million.
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by xanthorrea »

Meters are often overlooked and while I do not collect China I do know that meter cancels from India from the early 1920's are quite collectable and from anywhere where that they are not often seen from then start adding a bit.

Postal history collectors like to have some completeness in their collections. Over time I have shuffled through a fair range of cheapie covers and this is the first time that I have seen a meter mark from China and especially of the preCommunist period.

I will be intrigued to see how your survey goes and probably expect my low estimate to be exceeded - note I have paid $25 for an Aden cover cancelled by a meter from the mid 1960s but that had British military censorship as well.
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by Frank E Ring »

Well, I just voted $2500 so I could comment on that choice.

First I thought it might have something to do with Chinese new years, then I turned to the displayed symbolism, my thoughts went to the return of possible POWs, the black postmark, and finally I noticed the crayon marks.

But I might not have noticed the crayons straight up, and thus would have missed out :x (my bet).

Usage, be it with stamps or from meters, from inflationary eras will always represent interesting frameworks for postal history collections.

I have been collecting the Finnish Model 1930 small lions used in 1963 after the currency reform that left them void, or rather illegal, for franking. For €5 I could be lucky enough to pick up 1963 usage covers, straight outta dealer boxes, that would easily rival €5000 hammer price 1863 covers.
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by AMark »

I don't collect meter cancels myself. So I would not be willing to spend a lot on a cover like this. Perhaps a dollar or two.

But for someone who does collect meter cancels it would probably be worth a lot more.
Just wondering, how many meter cancel collectors are there?

Also, anything from China seems to be bringing high value.
Is it just Chinese collectors that are paying such large sums for China collectables?

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by phrag99 »

This must be worth a few thousand dollars (!), although it's not a meter mark. Not seen another like it, although it's not the sort of cover I collect.

Image

What does the chop on the left, mean?

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by smauggie »

I am slowly building a meters on cover collection (very slowly). I might be willing to pay up to $5 for it (including postage, etc).
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by chappie »

Due to hyperinflation, Postal Rates in 1949 changed frequently, some surviving only a few days. There are serious collectors buying covers that document these changes, e.g. first & last day of rate, etc. Some can be quite rare and trade accordingly. The Shanghai CDS confirming the meter date doesn't hurt, either.

So don't go there unless you really, really know what you're buying.

Chappie

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by stallzer »

I chose $250.00 based on that it isn't an early Meter as the US started using Meters in the 1920's and it can't be a $1 box item as people usually don't start polls on $1 items. Some US Meters are highly collectible so with this being China, I figured $250 would be a safe guess.
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by Rod Perry »

An excellent lesson for Stampboards readers that there is much, much more to Philately than pretty mint stamps.

Aside from rare meter types, meters featuring particular themes have been very sought after by exhibitors for decades, and regularly fetch many $100's at auction (my personal record on eBay US$436 for a Cricket meter).

There is a superb catalogue for an introduction to meters of the world, and the very helpful authors have generously provided a website.

Let there be no excuse for philatelic ignorance! Meters can be fun.

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by vikingeck »

stallzer wrote:I chose $250.00 based on that it isn't an early Meter as the US started using Meters in the 1920's .
What is " early" ?? 1949 is early for People's Republic of China given the post war turmoil in that country its survival is probably significant so maybe someone would indeed pay $250 for what might otherwise be a $1 give away .
whatever it is -------it's better than a poke in eye with a wet umbrella !

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by GlenStephens »

OK after 50 votes we have so far - I'll post the correct answer in a few days.
Image
By my dodgy Maths that is -

54% voted it was worth $25 or under.

82% voted it was worth $250 or under.


And the usual few lunatic fringe votes for '$25,000' are also there, reminding me we need to have mandatory IQ tests for all new members. :mrgreen:

Glen

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by funbaldguy »

I put down 50.00 since most collectors don't look at meters for their collection. However with over 1 billion people in the country and the mass of new stamp collectors in the Chinese market; some who cannot afford the outrageous prices of early PRC China may be looking at the fringe postal history market.

George


PS This is a totally wild guess.
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by youpiao »

phrag99 wrote:
What does the chop on the left, mean?
Printed Matter

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by memphre »

A shameless plug.

I have just posted a metered mail lot from the 1950s on the for sale forum. 15 covers from 15 different countries many not often seen on metered mail: Somali Coast, Sudan, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Ceylon, India, Spain, East Germany, West Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, Chile, USSR, UK.

See it here:
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=32361

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by aethelwulf »

vikingeck wrote:
stallzer wrote:I chose $250.00 based on that it isn't an early Meter as the US started using Meters in the 1920's .
What is " early" ?? 1949 is early for People's Republic of China given the post war turmoil in that country its survival is probably significant so maybe someone would indeed pay $250 for what might otherwise be a $1 give away .
My thoughts as well. Comparing when the USA had meters to when China did is apples and oranges.

If a university in a developing country proudly announced they had acquired their first super-computer, would you say "Oh that's nothing special, universities in other countries have had them for decades"?

I'd say there were probably not many meters in use in China, thus it would be a scarce item. But as we all know, rarity does not equal value. Collecting meters is a specialized field and not for many (most?). Most Chinese collectors are at the "fill the blanks in the pre-printed album" stage, not serious philatelists. (Or worse, they're just speculators. :oops: )

And given the fact that it was mailed to Australia, I don't think the political turmoil had much effect on its survival. 8)
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by ligneN »

Chinese meters (mainland, not Taiwan) pre-1952 are generally scarce.

Particular scarce are meters used May 1949 and after, when the new silver currency was introduced in mainland China.
Several larger p.o. had problems to get sufficient higher value stamps in the new silver currency (see the last Dr. Sun definitives issue).
High prices are particular recorded from Canton p.o., where higher denominations required for foreign-bound air mail covers were not available for

As known, this was the period when the Communists drove southward. Inevitably stamp distribution was not the central focus of transports. Shanghai fell to the reds July 1949 and Canton October 1949.

The shown cover dates Feb. 1949, so is not top rare, but still scarce.

And it is Republic of China of course, not PRC.

-- The Canton meters remained in usage after the red takeover and Oct./Dec. 1949 (now-) PRC usages are sought as well.

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by CASACUDOR »

I vote for 1$ and so...but I found later the correct value: ~ 500 $ (according International Postage Meter Stamp Catalog - China Mainland)

Republic of China inscription at top left

Machine number is present but in Chinese characters only in parenthesis in lower left corner.
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by Global Administrator »

Image

OK ... results time. :)

This cover sold for exactly $A1,125 on ebay -

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280763507410

The seller is a highly respected member of the stamp trade here, and the bids are genuine.

He told me he only listed it as he had a bundle of 20 stamped covers from China to Sydney from same correspondence, he was listing separately, and thought it might possibly be worth a few dollars.

This seller ran a large public stamps auction house here, and certainly knows his stuff, and was as amazed as me that it got even to 3 figures, much less way into 4 figures.

When it got to $250 he contacted me saying he was astounded.

Not ONE person voting - from 65 votes .... guessed the correct figure as you can see -
Image
I'd literally have tossed it into a junk box.

Rodney Perry posted a link above to a web page posting meter cover as did CASACUDOR - both links were removed until we announced the results and that link to bookmark is here for all to bookmark -

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/International_Postage_Meter_Sta ... (Mainland)

As you can see CHINA meters into 4 figures are not that unusual. So, the price paid on ebay seems about right.

As I often type - "Knowledge Is Power".

This thread more than most proves that beyond all doubt. :mrgreen:

Glen

And this thread demonstrates that perfectly. Not one person voting had the sale value of this cover correct. :idea:

A feature of my next 'Stamp News' column -

https://www.glenstephens.com/sndecember11.html

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by scotzm »

phrag99 said : "This must be worth a few thousand dollars (!), although it's not a meter mark. Not seen another like it, although it's not the sort of cover I collect."

Image

Image

Snap! My one also must be worth several thousands and I look forward to having a merry time on the proceeds as I dine on caviar, Moët & Chandon and marzipan… preceded by a breakfast of muesli hand picked by Heidi of the Alps.

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by selvedge »

phrag99 wrote:This must be worth a few thousand dollars (!), although it's not a meter mark. Not seen another like it, although it's not the sort of cover I collect.

Image

What does the chop on the left, mean?
It means "Printed Matter Only"

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by GlenStephens »

Global Administrator wrote:
Image

OK ... results time. :)

This cover sold for exactly $A1,125 on ebay -

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280763507410

The seller is a highly respected member of the stamp trade here, and the bids are genuine.

He told me he only listed it as he had a bundle of 20 stamped covers from China to Sydney from same correspondence, he was listing separately, and thought it might possibly be worth a few dollars.

This seller ran a large public stamps auction house here, and certainly knows his stuff, and was as amazed as me that it got even to 3 figures, much less way into 4 figures.
I assume there was an issue with payment, so the cover was re-listed, with $5.95 start, and this time got $A1,259 .. from a different bunch of bidders! :lol: :lol:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CHINA-SCARCE-1949-METER-COVER-AUSTRALIA-/280799573155

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by compoundperf »

:shock: :shock: OH Bugger ,

That means I lost the poll TWICE :lol: :lol:
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by aethelwulf »

Forgers will shift their focus from OS overprints to Chinese meters. :mrgreen:
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by cobbie10 »

I've just been sent 8 cartons of meter covers from around the world ranging from the 40's to the 90's, including a carton of Asia.

I've been going through the Asia and have pulled out over 100 Chinese so far ranging from the 1970's - early 1990.

These include quite a lot of the Taxepercue mark shown above. A check on Ebay for completed items sees covers from the 1949-51 era going in the $150-$6000 mark.

However 1959-1970's still seem to range from the $10-$50 mark. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to what makes one cover worth more than another.

I'm guessing there is no catalog / reference material out there that gives ideas as to values / scarcity on certain types of metered cancels ?

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by aethelwulf »

For China meters, and probably most countries, "the earlier, the scarcer"...logical isn't it? Especially items from 1949-51, those were still "turbulent times". 1980s onwards, supply becomes so great...look at the stamp issues, there's only maybe half-dozen M/S or booklets post-1980 Monkey that are of great value.

By the way, do you have any Thailand meters? You can contact me via Board email about that further.
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by cobbie10 »

Just sent you an email.

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by cobbie10 »


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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by Sark »

cobbie10 wrote:I've just been sent 8 cartons of meter covers from around the world ranging from the 40's to the 90's, including a carton of Asia. I've been going through the Asia and have pulled out over 100 Chinese so far ranging from the 1970's - early 1990. These include quite a lot of the Taxepercue mark shown above. A check on Ebay for completed items sees covers from the 1949-51 era going in the $150-$6000 mark. However 1959-1970's still seem to range from the $10-$50 mark. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to what makes one cover worth more than another.

I'm guessing there is no catalog / reference material out there that gives ideas as to values / scarcity on certain types of metered cancels ?
6 posts above your 1st is a link posted by Glen and several others as well as on several other threads on Stampboards for just such a web based catalogue and very helpful it is to, well worth a look.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/International_Postage_Meter_Sta ... (Mainland)

It covers about half the World so far with more countries being added regularly.

In your box of meters are there any from the Channel Island of Herm near Guernsey. Likewise are there any for Chiang Mai in Northern Thailand? If so please let me know.

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cobbie10
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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by cobbie10 »

Thanks ! I guess if I'm going to read a thread, I should read the complete thread.

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by cobbie10 »

Do we have any collectors of Australian Meters ? Apparently my supplier has around 100lbs in weight of metered envelopes from the 1950's to the 1990's.

I do not have en exact idea as to a breakdown of years but I will hopefully have that within the next few weeks. If there is a collector out there I think it would be advantageous for us to do this privately, especially due to the weight involved.

Looking through the Meter Catalog I see that there are very few that are valued at more than $5, in fact this is probably one country where they would be sold purely on weight.

I just had sales end of a large Hong Kong and a large China batch of covers end. The 43 Hong Kong of the same era sold for just over $200 and the couple of hundred China sold for $350.

Of course these are exceptions to the rule, but it just goes to show that people are buying pretty much anything philatelic from this area, and paying good prices for it.

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by KevinHedley »

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Re: POLL: Are Chinese METER CANCELS worth anything much?

Post by Global Administrator »

Thanks Kevin .. 58% of those 80 members voting went for value $25 or under!
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