1952 Australia 2/6d Aboriginal "£1 Jimmy" INVERTED Watermark

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1952 Australia 2/6d Aboriginal "£1 Jimmy" INVERTED Watermark

Post by lakatoi lover »

Australia 2/6d Aborigine "One Pound Jimmy" stamp, INVERTED Watermark. Does not exist mint?

I have been slowly going through and identifying the Australian stamps in a large collection that I recently bought.

In a glassine were 7 mint copies of what I thought were Australia SG 253, Large 2/6d Aborigine stamp, Perf 14.5, with Gibbons Watermark 15 (Multiple Crown C of A).

When I checked the watermarks I found that one of the stamps has the watermark with the Crown to the LEFT of A.

The other 6 clearly have the watermark with the Crown to the Right of A, as listed by Gibbons.

My 2010 Gibbons list the Crown to the Left of A variety in a used state at £2750.

For a mint copy, it is listed with a "Dagger" symbol, which means it "does not exist in this condition".

Front view

Image

Back View

Image

Accentuated Back view using watermark fluid - 1952 Australia 2/6d Aboriginal "One Pound £1 Jimmy" INVERTED Watermark.

Image

My questions are:

1. Is the mint variety listed in any specialised Australian catalogue?

2. If yes to (1), what is the catalogue value?

Cheers

Bill
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Re: Aust 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw mint copy does not exi

Post by Global Administrator »

Away from home right now and no ACSC but both wmks look identical to me Bill, so far as I can see.

Many writers (and Australia Post!) claim that the "One Pound Jimmy" name was bestowed on this Aboriginal man, because he invariably asked “£1” for odd jobs, or single handicrafts he made.
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Re: Aust 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw mint copy does not exist??

Post by lakatoi lover »

Hi Glen,

Yes, the watermarks on the 2 back scans are the same.

It is the same stamp but in the second back scan I have tried to make the watermark stand out by using watermark fluid.

I was trying to clearly show that the crown is on the LEFT side of the C of A.

Cheers

Bill
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Re: Aust 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw mint copy does not exist??

Post by Global Administrator »

OK .. got it. Thought you were trying to show "normal and invert". :)

Well if you are "CERTAIN" it is inverted to the usual, that is what it is. :mrgreen:

SG are not 100% up to date on wmk errors, but if used is recorded no reason whatever for mint not to exist either. Nice find if so!

Someone will have a KGVI ACSC to advise their notes on it.



Inverted Jimmy wmk.jpg

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Re: Aust 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw mint copy does not exist??

Post by lakatoi lover »

Global Administrator wrote:OK .. got it. Thought you were trying to show "normal and invert". :)

Well if you are "CERTAIN" it is inverted to the usual, that is what it is. :mrgreen:

SG are not 100% up to date on wmk errors, but if used is recorded no reason whatever for mint not to exist either. Nice find if so!

Someone will have a KGVI ACSC to advise their notes on it.
I am CERTAIN the watermark is Crown to the Left when viewed from the back of the stamp.

The watermark is very easy to see when held up to a strong light.

I also guessed that Gibbons may not be up to date with all the Australian watermark varieties, hence my questions. :)

Cheers

Bill
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by Diver Pete »

Bill,

My 1995 ASC KGV1 states in the notes that "one used example is known with the watermark sideways, crown facing right (as viewed from the front of the stamp)."

Yet again I think you have unearthed a rarity! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Well done! 8)
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by Global Administrator »

Pete .. there is no doubt it will be very scarce but the 15 years since that edition may have allowed Kellow to update since ... I am not home this weekend, but hopefully someone can advise.
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by lakatoi lover »

Diver Pete wrote:Bill,

My 1995 ASC KGV1 states in the notes that "one used example is known with the watermark sideways, crown facing right (as viewed from the front of the stamp)."

Yet again I think you have unearthed a rarity! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Well done! 8)
:shock: :shock:

It looks like the money I spent on the collection, which included the "NIVANI" cancel, might turn out to be a real bargain. :lol: :lol:

If I hadn't seen the Papua cancel, I wouldn't have bought the collection. :D :D

Will wait to see what a later edition of the catalogue has to say but it certainly looks like it might be very rare. :!:

Cheers

Bill
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by Skippy »

Congratulations Bill :mrgreen:
a very exciting find by the sounds of things !!

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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by lakatoi lover »

Diver Pete wrote:Bill,

My 1995 ASC KGV1 states in the notes that "one used example is known with the watermark sideways, crown facing right (as viewed from the front of the stamp)."

Yet again I think you have unearthed a rarity! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Well done! 8)
Does anyone have a later copy of the KGVI ACSC :?:

I would be most interested to see if there is any mention of a mint copy of SG 253aw being found since the 1995 edition was published. :)

Cheers

Bill
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by Skippy »

Bill I have ACSC 2006

It might be easier for me to scan the pages for you to read yourself because I'm already confused with which is normal or not, left or right ?.

It says
Paper: Watermarked Multiple Crown and C of A (type 6) sideways, crown facing left

256
a. Watermark sideways inverted (1) used $5000

note: (1) Two used examples are recorded with the watermark sideways, showing top of crown facing right (as seen from the front of the stamp)

edit: nothing mentioned about mint
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Last edited by Skippy on 05 Sep 2010 19:45, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by admin »

100% increase in numbers known between editions. :)

I never have time to look, so the mind boggles at how many are out there, as used this is pretty common.

A nice find .. I really must pay attention when handling these now.

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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist m

Post by Skippy »

Image
Image

Image

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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by lakatoi lover »

Skippy wrote:Bill I have ACSC 2006

It might be easier for me to scan the pages for you to read yourself because I'm already confused with which is normal or not, left or right ?.

It says
Paper: Watermarked Multiple Crown C of A (type 6) sideways, crown facing left

256
a. Watermark sideways inverted (1) used $5000

note: (1) Two used examples are recorded with the watermark sideways, showing top of crown facing right (as seen from the front of the stamp)

edit: nothing mentioned about mint
Skippy
Thanks Skippy.

The stamp I have shows the watermark "Crown to the Right" when looking from the front of the stamp and conversly "Crown to the Left" when looking from the rear.

It is the rare one listed with only 2 known used copies.

Looks like I have stumbled upon the first recorded mint copy. :shock:

As a bonus, the stamp has never been hinged. :wink:

It's just good luck that I found it.

Firstly, I only bought the collection for the Papua "Nivani" cancel that is discussed on another thread.

Then I only checked the backs of the 7 copies of the stamp to see if there was any tone. :lol:

I could see clearly that there 6 with the watermark in one direction and 1 with the watermark reversed.

I then went and had a look at my 2010 Gibbons to see if the different watermarks were listed, expecting to see they were and there was no price difference.

You can imagine my surprise when I saw that there was only 1 known used copy and no mint copies recorded. :shock: :shock:

Obviously, there must have been at least one sheet printed but I assume there were millions of the normal watermark??

Cheers

Bill
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by SMSSLT »

Bill,

Based on these two amazing finds, please send me your lotto numbers for next week.... :)

Bernie...
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Great find Bill 8)
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by lakatoi lover »

SMSSLT wrote:Bill,

Based on these two amazing finds, please send me your lotto numbers for next week.... :)

Bernie...
Bernie,

I might just go for the trifecta in next Saturday's $20M Tattslotto draw. :lol: :lol:

Cheers

Bill
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by ozstamps »

Put a bet on the Swans to be AFL Premiers ... at 25 to 1 ... better odds than Tattslotto! :)
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by asmodeus »

A great find!
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist m

Post by GlenStephens »

Image

Bill sold the "One Pound Jimmy" Inverted Watermark to me for an agreed price, to avoid the quite horrendous auction fees on a stamp of that value. A lesson far too many collectors overlook.

I found a good home for it the same day, so a WIN-WIN all around. 8)

I wrote a detailed story on "One Pound Jimmy" here - https://www.glenstephens.com/snoctober10.html

Took me 2 days of research, but makes an interesting read I feel. :mrgreen:

And the new discovery stamp is on the front cover this month - see above.

Every dealer and auction in the country will hate me for 3 months for wasting their time, as at LEAST 100 dreamers will come rushing in with their "rare" copy for sale -- which of course will all be normal watermark. :shock:

But being sideways watermark, there is no way of telling for the average Joe who only has one copy, and they assume OF COURSE they have the "rarity". They always do. :idea:

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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by Rog »

Incredible story :D

Thanks for the interesting article too.
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by Allanswood »

Can I ask the "simple simon" question of the week then? I have 2 pairs of these.

How do you describe the position of the watermarks being sideways?

Until I do a signoscope photo...

When looking at the front of the stamp with the stamp upright I have:

Pair a/ - has the CofA and then Crown starting on the bottom and running up the stamp

Pair b/ has the CofA and then Crown starting at the top and running down the stamp.

The exact opposite but both are readble from the front.

Is one of these what we are all talking about? :D

Or do you mean on the rare one - from the front its a mirror image = AfoC?

And can I now pay off my credit card debt?! :lol:
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by admin »

Greg from the sound of that, one of your pairs WILL clearly be inverted watermark.

I bet Bill that there would be a lot turn up based on my article, simply as no-one (me included!) had ever looked for them before.

I made hiim a fair offer, he said "whooppee", the money was transferred same day, and no-one can ever take it off him. :)

The stamp itself is incredibly common, so the potential is, for a lot to exist.

Why not mail them to me Reg'd post ASAP to look at, and appraise. The next few to sell will still get good dough, and the price drops a lot for each subseqent find. 8)

I can have them up on my Rarity page in a day. Your credit card debt will vanish, and be way in credit!
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by lakatoi lover »

Allanswood wrote:
Can I ask the "simple simon" question of the week then? I have 2 pairs of these.

How do you describe the position of the watermarks being sideways?

Until I do a signoscope photo...

When looking at the front of the stamp with the stamp upright I have:

Pair a/ - has the CofA and then Crown starting on the bottom and running up the stamp

Pair b/ has the CofA and then Crown starting at the top and running down the stamp.

The exact opposite but both are readble from the front.

Is one of these what we are all talking about? :D

Or do you mean on the rare one - from the front its a mirror image = AfoC?

And can I now pay off my credit card debt?! :lol:
Hi Greg,

Sounds like you might have found the second copy. :D

You can clearly see the watermark in my scans above.

When looking from the back of the stamp, the crown is on the LEFT hand side of the C of A.

Cheers

Bill
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by Allanswood »

I was just reading my bit again and I should have added that my pairs are 1 that seem mint no gum and the other pair used (and with a closer inspection one has a small tear).

I'll bet if one is the rarer it will be the used - but I will have the only (so far) PAIR of them!

So they are off to Glen for a look-see and opinion! :D
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist m

Post by Allanswood »

Here are pictures of mine for all to see.

One of these pairs must be the rarer watermark.

If so I guess I've found the first pair of them!

Inverted on the left, normal sideways on the right.

Image

Inverted watermark
Image

Normal watermark
Image
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist m

Post by ozstamps »

Yes it was obvious to me a week back that one pair of them was inverted. :lol:

I thought you'd mailed them? No sign of them today.

Getting these on the market and sold FAST is the key with such things. Each copy that turns up drops the price a few $1000.

If several more turn up each will be worth 10% of what Bill got. Very simple maths. :)

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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by lakatoi lover »

Hi Greg,

Looks like you have found used copies 3 & 4 and in a pair!

Well done.

I now take a special interest in this stamp every time I see a copy. :lol: :lol:

Cheers

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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by Allanswood »

I just had a thought...

If we can work out the CDS name - we'll then know where the mystery sheet was sold from!

And what date range.

I wonder if the other 2 known used singles have a matching CDS? Anyone got a picture of them?
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist mint?

Post by Allanswood »

I can't figure the date but the CDS is Marrickville NSW - unbelievable I lived right next door for over 30 years! :D
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Re: Australia 1952 2/6d Aborigine SG 253aw- Does not exist m

Post by GlenStephens »

Allanswood wrote:I can't figure the date but the CDS is Marrickville NSW - unbelievable I lived right next door for over 30 years! :D
Image
Yes very definitely postmarked MARRICKVILLE .. a Sydney suburb.

My guess is definitely more than 1 sheet was printed .. they sold 100 million of this design over a decade or so ... however only a few are recorded, simply as folks have seldom looked!

You and Lakatoi Lover have found 3 copies in a few weeks, more than doubling the total number known beforehand!

The power of stampboards. :D

I would not be at all surprised if another(s) "Jimmy" invert turns up via here.

However even at 5 copies total, that makes it a VERY rare stamp for something near 60 years old.

Time will tell. :)

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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mint?

Post by crosscrescent »

This has been an interesting thread.

Goes to show you that rarities can still be found today if you look hard enough.
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by GlenStephens »

The usual bunch of clueless dreamers, who cannot read or comprehend, are all finding copies of this watermark error 2/6d Aboriginal "Inverted Jimmy" rare stamp. :evil: :evil:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=24459
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by SafetySam »

Hi One Pound Jimmy Fans, just a quick query...is it hard to physically see the watermarks on these stamps?

Do they need to be wet with fluid first? I have tried and tried in all sorts of light, natural, UV, Flouro, sideways, down side up and every other way to see the WM's on my OPJ's and I just CAN'T see a thing that even looks remotely like a WM?

I'll post them up in case I'm missing something...what is the best way to photograph or scan the WM and from what side? I must be going blind in my old age.. :lol:
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by WEIRD AL »

SafetySam wrote:Hi One Pound Jimmy Fans, just a quick query...is it hard to physically see the watermarks on these stamps? Do they need to be wet with fluid first? I have tried and tried in all sorts of light, natural, UV, Flouro, sideways, down side up and every other way to see the WM's on my OPJ's and I just CAN'T see a thing that even looks remotely like a WM? I'll post them up in case I'm missing something...what is the best way to photograph or scan the WM and from what side? I must be going blind in my old age.. :lol:

They come in 3 versions= watermark,No watermark and emergency printing no watermark.

Al.
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by GlenStephens »

SafetySam wrote:Hi One Pound Jimmy Fans, just a quick query...is it hard to physically see the watermarks on these stamps?

Nope.


But less me guess -- you are squinting and peering at no watermark copies, hence your issue. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by SafetySam »

Great, so I'm not going blind after all ! :lol:
Thanks for that info, I guess I'll find it the more I read...there's just soooooo much here! :D

Cheers,
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Australian 1952 2s6d Aborigine watermark question

Post by moriety »

Hi all,

I'm a little confused by the SG description of what the "Wmk to the left of C of A" (SG 253aw) should actually look like?

SG says "The normal sideways watermark on 253 shows crown to the right of Cof A as seen from the back of the stamp".

The C of A has a crown both sides of it, so what are they saying?

I've posted my single example with a (poor!) sketch next to it of how it appears from the back of the stamp.
Can someone explain what it would look like if it was the SG 253aw variety?

Image

Thanks!
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Re: Australian 1952 2s6d Aborigine watermark question

Post by Allanswood »

Enjoy!
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=21381&hilit=jimmy

But wait for photobucket as there still stuffing around with many images. :roll:
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by admin »

Yep, this is INVERTED from reverse .. valuable -
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by moriety »

Admin:

Thanks for moving my post here- I did an in-house google search for this stamp before posting a new topic and neither two topics displayed was this one yet I thought I'd read another topic about it....

So from the much clearer description (than the SG one) in the page of a catalogue posted by Skippy above, the wmk seen from the back, very simply, has the crowns facing left in it's rare condition, now why didn't SG just say that in the first place!
Collecting used world stamps to 1920, m/m and used Australia upto 2013 and used Australia State stamps.
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by ozstamps »

moriety wrote:
So from the much clearer description (than the SG one) in the page of a catalogue posted by Skippy above, the wmk seen from the back, very simply, has the crowns facing left in it's rare condition, now why didn't SG just say that in the first place!
Well to be fair, each SG has clear photos of what inverted watermarks look like. :idea:
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by Micky »

Hi, I have noticed there is a lot of looking left and right on the watermarks, curious what about the watermark that is not sideways, C of A going across the face of the stamp. Common??

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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by GlenStephens »

Micky wrote:
Hi, I have noticed there is a lot of looking left and right on the watermarks, curious what about the watermark that is not sideways, C of A going across the face of the stamp. Common??

Cheers
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On the 2/6d or the 8½d?
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by Micky »

Well as my mum and dad always said to me, "Think before you speak". I failed again 8 1/2 it is :cry: .. No need to reply Glen i feel my shame. Thanks for helping
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by PeterS »

I see Michael Eastick has this for sale now, MUH, at A$15,000.
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by GlenStephens »

Peter when you think on it, it is still attractively priced.

Certainly well under what the finder and myself got for it, but selling these things are calculated risks.

As far as I know it is still the ONLY mint copy known - which after being on the front cover of 'Stamp News' really surprises me.

I've had 100 "dreamers" excitedly contact me since the article - but all were just that.

If a few more mint had turned up, the market price would be half or less each copy. But they have not.

At least 2 more used copies have been auctioned, and I've heard of others being reported found, in addition to the original finds in the 1960s, so the finder of the used pair I sold is ahead of the game already.

My last 'Stamp News' column reported this ugly inverted wmk Roo just sold for $36,000.

http://www.glenstephens.com/snmay11.html

At well over twice the price of the so far unique Jimmy, there is no contest really. :)

I'll go on record as saying that if no other mint copies surface, $15,000 is a GREAT deal. As history will doubltess show. :)

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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by PeterS »

Glen, certainly I agree. I don't think it will be as low as $15,000 a few years from now, unless many more are found. Likely there was only a single sheet, given how few examples survive.
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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by orange »

Hi All

Found a packet with 2/6 Deep Brown WM. SG 253 ASC 267 written on it, I can see in the first scan the top left corner stamp has C of A very clearly but I am not seeing it as clear in the other stamps.

For example on Row 2 Stamp 3 looks like it may go across ways but perhaps it is wishful thinking on my part :)

I am hoping that when these were stored (1980's) an inverted watermark wasn't heard of, any advice or expertise is greatly appreciated. (This isn't part of the broken bundled lot I posted earlier)

I have higher resolution scans if this helps, wasn't sure I could post the links here tho, for the techy people if you remove the _resize from the scan link it will give you the high resolution scans.

Thanks Paul

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Re: Australia 2/6d Aborigine INVERTED Wmk. Does not exist mi

Post by GlenStephens »

Do a search on "detecting watermarks" here.

No-one can tell from those tiny thumb size scans.

A member here sold me another nice condition used one recently, so I have bought most of those that have appeared on the market.

Glen
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