Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

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GlenStephens
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Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by GlenStephens »

Image

Image
Saturday night so a bit of fun. :mrgreen:

Post your guess as to what YOU would happily sell this for if you owned it.

Poorly centred 1947 2 Rupee Ceylon on an untidily addressed FDC. SG 396b - cat £3 used.

Cover badly toned/aged/foxed, and with yellow cellotape remainders both sides and heavy vertical centre fold.

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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by aethelwulf »

High-face stamp, nonetheless not much in SG for used.

Given the condition, it could well become dollar-bin material. "List on eBay at 99cents and see what happens."
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by goof »

The only slightly confusing part is a 1938 stamp on a 1947 cover listed as FDC so I know I'm missing something!!!

I'd find out why it was labelled as such before selling....but if it had to go and for fun I'd put on at £15 start....see I got a bit and if not reduce to £5.

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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by TheRoyalCounty »

Goof
SG list the black & violet 2R as issued 15/03/47 so the FDC is good....

The stamp is common and cat is £3 used and 2x on cover so worth the price of a pint on a very good day....but

1947 saw Ceylon hold it's first true national election and new constitution although this was later in the year, I suspect the addressee J. Barnet or his estate may have played some role in this event...a search online shows the Barnet family were a prominent tea family.

The estate mentioned on the cover is now a rubber plantation; I can't find anything else of note.

Neat Mahawela cancel, a small village now so probably even smaller in 1947, nothing else of note found.

Edited to add: Anything on the rear Glen? Perhaps the tape suggests the cover was part of a larger package...an elephant? :D
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by jonattwood »

goof wrote:The only slightly confusing part is a 1938 stamp on a 1947 cover listed as FDC so I know I'm missing something!!!

I'd find out why it was labelled as such before selling....but if it had to go and for fun I'd put on at £15 start....see I got a bit and if not reduce to £5.

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Mick
According to my copy of SG commonwealth there were two differing colours of this stamp, Black and Carmine issued in 1938 and Black and violet issued in 1947. this would be the latter version so the date is correct.
The 1947 colour combination is the cheaper of the two.

I'm wondering if this colour change was pre announced, or just issued to the post offices without telling philatelists? If it wasn't well known in advance then the number of FDCs was probably quite small.

What would I sell it for? that rather depends what I had paid for it. I don't collect Ceylon, so the only way I would have cover like this would be if it turned up in a job lot with something I did want, I would probably pass it on cheaply as it looks rather tatty, maybe try for £1.

That's before I saw this thread of course. The fact that Glen has posted up a ratty cover with a cheap stamp and asked for guesses of value suggests that it is a rarity in hiding, and he has seen it go for a surprisingly high price.
I'm going to go with the unnanounced issue/rare on FDC idea and guess a value of £80.

Incidentally, whilst looking the stamp up I noticed that there were some perf varieties of the lower values issued during wartime, I wouldn't be surprised if these were unnanounced issues and rare on FDC too. Even if they were known of beforehand they might be rarities as many philatelists could have missed it due to being on active service at the time.

Take a look at this thread http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=51510 for an example of an unexpectedly valuable FDC, common stamp but unannounced, I came very close to putting it on eBay at a 99p start !

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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by goof »

TheRoyalCounty wrote:Goof
SG list the black & violet 2R as issued 15/03/47 so the FDC is good....
Opps... thanks for that.

Apologies for my confusion, I don't know where in my head I got that date from, I didn't check my Gibbons!

edit: just seen Jon's post so I know where I got the date from :D

In that case I cannot see why it would have any great value, unless the stripes across the envelope indicate something ??

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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by thecloudwatcher »

I could well be mistaken, but I don't think the Ceylon post office offered an official first day cover service for this stamp. Given the extensive toning and other faults, I'd say £75 on a good day (a fine fdc is likely worth £200+).
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Philexx »

With everything said above I still only think its worth 7 Australian Dollars at most. Only real interest being that its a Tea Plantation that's addressed to perhaps. I found a Lt. J Barnet that died during WWII and is now buried in Ceylon in a military cemetary, don't know if there's any connection there though.
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by lesbootman »

I would guess US$ 12.50 ....

I would not pay that much myself, it is outside my budget (see thread http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3099)
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by gavin-h »

Taking the following into account, I think we're getting somewhere....
TheRoyalCounty wrote:Neat Mahawela cancel, a small village now so probably even smaller in 1947, nothing else of note found.
thecloudwatcher wrote:I could well be mistaken, but I don't think the Ceylon post office offered an official first day cover service for this stamp.
jonattwood wrote:I'm wondering if this colour change was pre announced, or just issued to the post offices without telling philatelists? If it wasn't well known in advance then the number of FDCs was probably quite small.
TheRoyalCounty wrote:1947 saw Ceylon hold it's first true national election and new constitution although this was later in the year, I suspect the addressee J. Barnet or his estate may have played some role in this event...a search online shows the Barnet family were a prominent tea family.
On the basis that each of these factors will "multiply" the value, not "add" to it, I'll go out on a limb here and say it's worth £10 x 10 x 10 x 10 which gives it a theoretical £10,000. :shock:

What would I personally pay for it? I'd pass over it even in a "Dollar Box" because it's waaaaay outside my area of interest and expertise.
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Michael Beharry »

Worth squat to me...I'd give it to some kid.

(Who might get the last laugh on me....lucky little bugger).
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by JKA »

Well, weekend is over, and we are all curious about the value and story behind it. :)
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by ewen s »

Michael Beharry wrote:Worth squat to me...I'd give it to some kid.

(Who might get the last laugh on me....lucky little bugger).
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

I wouldn't buy it because of the condition (it will only get worse :!: ) but with a small P.O., a high value stamp used on FDI I think as a pure guess it may have hit the $300 mark (possibly much more depending who is after it).
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Brummie »

Anything on the back and is it chemically censored?
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by GlenStephens »

Brummie wrote:...... is it chemically censored?
I know what you mean re that WW2 censoring by the Germans, but this is way after the war .. it is just condition STUFFED sadly, not censored! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Post by Brummie »

GlenStephens wrote: but this is way after the war ..
I know but I'm getting desperate for any redeeming feature other than saving the stamp and bin the cover. :cry:
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by GlenStephens »

I'd have binned it normallly to be honest. Pretty DRAK, it really is. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll come up with the answer in an hour after dinner - any more guesses?
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by TheRoyalCounty »

GlenStephens wrote:I'll come up with the answer in an hour after dinner - any more guesses?
Yeah; the cover contained a wad of $100 bills..... :lol:
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by hutch »

The only reason I would buy this, would be for the stamp...and hope the bargain box price isn't over $5.00

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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by GlenStephens »

Well here is the answer. :mrgreen:

The ratty and ugly cover was down the bottom of a carton of junk from an estate that have been laying around here.

The family appeared to have lived at some point in Ceylon.

I know that, as they were a couple of these 1937 Ceylon Coronation 2R70 Stamp booklet. SG SB #16 Cat £1300 each. Luckily those were in a glassine, and in good clean shape.

Image

This cover above, indeed other Ceylon KGVI First Day covers were alongside, but also in cruddy shape.

The 2R one above was in my weekly $100 junk box a week back, and I allowed about 10c for it.

The others were in the next junk box, as I found them when photoing that one.

Buyer here of junk box #1 put some of the stuff up on ebay - including the Ceylon 1947 1 Rupee KGVI First Day Cover in post #1. With low start price.

He got an offer of $250 for it very fast, and asked me why that was. I said I had no idea, but suggested he grab it FAST, before the buyer was committed to a psychiatric ward somewhere. :lol: :lol: :lol:

He got the money by PayPal and then got another offer even higher! He'd already accepted the initial $250, and mailed the cover.

To my mind it is still a 10c cover, but what would a dealer know - indeed reading the posts above, I clearly am not alone! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by jimwentzell »

Wow, amazing what a little publicity and the World Wide Web can do for a measly cover (I too would have hesitated before purchasing the above cover even for fifty cents!)

That's precisely, however, why I find collecting covers--more precisely postal history--so much more exciting than stamps alone.

There's always a story to be uncovered with a cover!
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by jimwentzell »

And might I add, in my travels, I find things all the time tucked away inside these cheapie covers.

I will start a thread here on Stampboards the next time I find something!
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by GlenStephens »

There was nothing inside the covers. Some ugly yellowed sellotape on the OUTSIDE tho. :lol:

$250 for this $1 stamp - MIND boggling!
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by TheRoyalCounty »

$250 :shock:

I wonder if the buyer of your junk box is reading this - if yes then can I request he/she ask the eBay buyer what makes this cover worth the money.
jimwentzell wrote:I will start a thread here on Stampboards the next time I find something!
Try here:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=50129
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Post by Philexx »

Amazing! :shock:
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Post by GlenStephens »

TheRoyalCounty wrote:$250 :shock:

I wonder if the buyer of your junk box is reading this - if yes then can I request he/she ask the eBay buyer what makes this cover worth the money.
No idea. Not my issue - he got his $250 and I suspect was not asking WHY the Bunnies were offering it! First rule of selling - never argue with Crazies!

The other buyer of next junk lot with same era Ceylon KGVI FDC in there I passed on this info to of course. :)

I just price things at something fair, and move them on. Many odd things are in there I am sure from time to time. :lol:
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Post by TheRoyalCounty »

I hear you...having benefitted from similar 'left field' bids I didn't wait around to ask why, but....

A bid of $250 on (I'm assuming) a low start auction suggests this was not the work of a 'bunnie' caught up in the bidding excitement rather someone who knew his/her stuff and also knew other specialist Ceylon collectors would too and took a cheeky punt.

Unlikely we'll know why but with a passing interest in Ceylon I'd love to know.
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Post by GlenStephens »

I think the offers were private emails to avoid a bidding war. :)

Time is money to a busy dealer, and you just can't spend an hour each time looking left field things up sadly!

I listed this up after midnight tonight -

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=57991

100s of NSW numeral cancels not been looked at since the War - or earlier. Time to look up these in books over an hour for me. Squinting a numeral types or dreary KGV head flyspecks is as exciting to me as watching paint dry. 8)

I just do not have a spare hour, so put 33c each on them, and move onto the next thing. If all cr*p they are worth that anyway, and just one decent number pays the whole lot. It is a numbers game. :)

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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Brummie »

GlenStephens wrote:Time is money to a busy dealer, and you just can't spend an hour each time looking left field things up sadly!
No, but Stampboards have time so why not make this a regular thing and pop up something you have a gut feeling about and see what happens? :idea:
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Allanswood »

Value? For me either the CDS or the FDC and not the adressee.
Whoever sent it to him, if not himself (same delivery town as sender), knew it meant something to make it an FDC.

So I'd go with the FDC being the value.
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

The listing was ended early by the seller: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1114(edited by Admin)7

If the buyer and the second person who made an offer had both placed bids, the seller would have got a better price. :idea:

I don't think the buyer or the one who made an offer are so-called "bunnies" - they probably know the real value of what might be an extremely rare cover.
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

Does anyone have the Proud volume for Ceylon? Maybe the Mahawela cancel is rare on cover?

The only other one I found on the internet was this single stamp, and none on covers:
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It only sold for $8 though - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380982749487
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Rolliby »

Very interesting about the Ceylon cover.

Though it did make me remember this one stamp in g-pa's album that I've pondered. It's not as interesting with a story on a cover though, but interesting enough. Overprinted with War Stamp and One Cent. He collected 2 pages of Ceylon stamps.

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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Global Admin »

HalfpennyYellow wrote:Does anyone have the Proud volume for Ceylon? Maybe the Mahawela cancel is rare on cover?

The only other one I found on the internet was this single stamp, and none on covers:

Image

It only sold for $8 though - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380982749487
Well it will not be the cancel, if that nice one sold for $8!
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Global Admin »

GlenStephens wrote:There was nothing inside the covers. Some ugly yellowed sellotape on the OUTSIDE tho. :lol:

$250 for this $1 stamp - MIND boggling!
Image
Anyone got ANY idea why this got $US250?

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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by DJCMH »

I think gavin has the right idea it was more a combo of factors that made the cover desirable to the collector who bought it.

Also perhaps topical interest for theme of South Asian Art or Buddhist statues (or Hindu statues??) played a role as well.
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by satsuma »

Maybe because the colour is blue and the issued colour was violet?
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Global Admin »

satsuma wrote:Maybe because the colour is blue and the issued colour was violet?
OMG. :roll:

No wonder ebay thrives! 'Blue' stamp indeed. The 2R stamps looks a little Orange in certain light actually, to some ebay Bunny somewhere, I am sure. :roll:
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by iaincraven »

Is this not just a very rare first day cover? And sold for so much despite condition because it is very rare?

Covers for the 1938 original issues come up as they were created by Selfridges - like below (despite the cachet is not actually correct first day for any of the stamps on it). But I've never seen an FDC for the colour change 2r.

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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Princestamps »

Maybe the cover was signed by Merle Oberon or Vivien Leigh or some other Indian born actress.

Can't be centering, I know the Americans go bananas over that, but the stamp is poorly centered.
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by Rod Perry »

The often enormous variations in assessment is but one of many facets of cover fascination for me.

I wonder how many readers would give a second glance in isolation to this cover?
Image
It's one of just three/four genuine FDCs for the 1942 Emu and, remarkably, it's an Official use . . . by chance.

At the Arthur Gray recent auction (at Spink) of the KGVI section, this cover realized £6600 including premium.

You'd probably look at it twice now that you know that!

Rod
Preserve DNA - retain covers intact. Scientists may be grateful!
Commercial covers represent “Stamps in Action”: Philately’s last Great Frontier
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BigSaint
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by BigSaint »

Rod

You have a much better photocopy than me & this photocopy is as close as I will come to possessing one:
Image
I did not realise Arthur was the owner. I thought this one was owned by another eminent FDC collector.

Brad :)
Specialist Collector of World Horse Racing Covers, Melbourne Cup & Kentucky Derby, & JFK fdcs.
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twinklefeet
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Re: Weekend guessing Game .. what is this one worth to YOU?

Post by twinklefeet »

Global Admin wrote: 01 Oct 2017 14:23
satsuma wrote:Maybe because the colour is blue and the issued colour was violet?
OMG. :roll:

No wonder ebay thrives! 'Blue' stamp indeed. The 2R stamps looks a little Orange in certain light actually, to some ebay Bunny somewhere, I am sure. :roll:
Image
Better late than never.

Ceylon 1938-49 KGVI First Day Covers have a huge demand. Since they were not officially issued, the few remaining today are thought to be prepared by collectors on the first day of issue as 'Philatelic covers'.

This particular one is considered the rarest, perhaps a handful exist.

Here's another one, sold a few years back:
270326714_10227634101780360_1432023273832450451_n.jpg
-TF ('',)
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