Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

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Clapas
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

Post by Clapas »

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Forestry specialists began on February 3, 2021 to select the oaks necessary for the reconstruction site of the Cathedral of Notre-Dame de Paris, and in particular of the emblematic spire. Professionals make their choice based on a number of physical criteria.

The selection was carried out on private plots of the commune of La Neuve-Lyre, which will ultimately be able to supply 15 to 20 oaks for the restoration site.

The teams will therefore have to choose "a majority of large trees of 50, 60, 80 or 90 centimeters in diameter and 8 to 14 meters in height, (...) which corresponds to the bole of the tree, in which the wood will be sawn to make structural pieces "

Such physical characteristics correspond to "trees which are at least 100 years old, and up to 200 for some, sometimes even a little more", according to Philippe Gourmain, member of the France Bois Forêt inter-profession, responsible for coordinating the harvest. trees for the Notre-Dame site.

According to the specialists in the file, the reconstruction of the spire will require the use of no less than a thousand oaks, which will have to be felled in March to have sufficient drying time.

The oaks which will be used to rebuild the "forest" of the framework of Notre-Dame, for their part, will be selected in the fall of 2021.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

Post by Ceres »

Why using wood?

It is such a shame. Destroy trees for a building when really we could use other materials.
Even though I love old buildings and the History behind it, I don’t understand the stubbornness and stupidity sometimes, in rebuilding something to its former glory the way it was built hundreds of years ago. Let’s move on with the time...

Today we have enough materials that would look identical to oak or wood.

Just my thoughts anyway ;) ;)

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

Post by Allanswood »

They could still use wood, cross ply laminate, solid, shaped to last and much stronger that selected beams of Oak.
But to read that it will take 1,000 trees to remake the spire? I would not kill 1,000 old forest sentinels for that.

Why not make it of something that won't burn?

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

Post by RogerE »

Thank you Clapas for the detailed update on restoration plans for Notre Dame.

I sympathise with the sentiments of those lamenting the planned use of mature oak trees
for this purpose, but perhaps there is more to the plan. Clapas, can you tell us whether
there are plans to plant more oak trees for those that will be used? Are there managed oak
forests or plantations in France? Are there reforestation activities that restore former oak
forests?

As an aside, what would the critics think of the idea that steel or plastic be used instead of oak?
Do the materials matter? If a classic painting, say a work by Leonardo da Vinci, were partially damaged,
would it be acceptable to use modern acrylic paint to restore it?

No doubt the last word has not yet been said...

/RogerE :D

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

Post by MarkM »

Allanswood wrote:
23 Feb 2021 13:37
They could still use wood, cross ply laminate, solid, shaped to last and much stronger that selected beams of Oak.
But to read that it will take 1,000 trees to remake the spire? I would not kill 1,000 old forest sentinels for that.

Why not make it of something that won't burn?

LVL beams or glue laminate beams have some a long way in the last decade or so. And they do look good in place.

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

Post by Global Administrator »

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Dear Frenchmen,

Why be destructive vandals, and destroy 1000 x 200 year old magnificent oak trees that all of course will all burn down in the next fire.

It is 2021. Buy some finest grade Australian BHP Blue Scope Steel, and get with it.

Far faster, far cheaper, FAR simpler to use, fireproof, garlic proof, and will last many times longer. We will even paint it all Red/White/Blue if you wish. :lol:

Tradition is great - eat as many snails as you want, and wear funny hats and berets, and cheerfully lets dogs and cats eat at restaurant tables, but do get sensible here. :mrgreen:

2021 is all about PRESERVING natural material resources, and limited assets - not raping them for such unnecessary and pointless use. That likely will all burn down again. :idea:

Glen


Trusses.jpg



Don't you have any environmentalists in France these days?

Clapas wrote:
22 Feb 2021 21:56

Such physical characteristics correspond to "trees which are at least 100 years old, and up to 200 for some, sometimes even a little more", according to Philippe Gourmain, member of the France Bois Forêt inter-profession, responsible for coordinating the harvest. trees for the Notre-Dame site.

According to the specialists in the file, the reconstruction of the spire will require the use of no less than a thousand oaks, which will have to be felled in March to have sufficient drying time.
.
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

Post by Clapas »

Thank you for your message Roger

RogerE wrote:
23 Feb 2021 23:05
Thank you Clapas for the detailed update on restoration plans for Notre Dame.

I sympathise with the sentiments of those lamenting the planned use of mature oak trees
for this purpose, but perhaps there is more to the plan. Clapas, can you tell us whether
there are plans to plant more oak trees for those that will be used? Are there managed oak
forests or plantations in France? Are there reforestation activities that restore former oak
forests?

We have a lot of forests in France. In France, the activity of the forest-wood sector generates € 60 billion and employs 440,000 people, more than the automobile industry. The French forest is constantly growing. The forest is mostly damaged due to global warming and overall the trees felled are in a permanent and fairly well managed replacement system. On the other hand in December 2020 The plan to "repopulate" French forests, will make it possible to plant "50 million trees" in order to fight against the effects of global warming.


As an aside, what would the critics think of the idea that steel or plastic be used instead of oak?
Do the materials matter? If a classic painting, say a work by Leonardo da Vinci, were partially damaged,
would it be acceptable to use modern acrylic paint to restore it?

No doubt the last word has not yet been said...

/RogerE :D
I Collect : FDCs around the world and mint stamps or FDC from Greek Mythology, Writers, Poets, Native Masks. You can send to me at my address by post. Before you can write a message to: clapas at gmx dot fr

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

Post by Brit-Col »

Why all the fuss about the spire? The spire was not even original.

The Notre Dame fire was a tragedy but accepting that it happened how about restoring it in a way that also modernizes it?

Putting the I.M. Pei pyramid in front of the Louvre did not harm the Louvre, it just presented it for a different age.

Having said that, it seems plans are place and underway and I have no doubt the rebuilt Notre Dame will be a grand structure.

BC
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

Post by RogerE »

Do the materials matter? If a classic painting, say a work by Leonardo da Vinci, were partially damaged,
would it be acceptable to use modern acrylic paint to restore it?

No doubt the last word has not yet been said...
But so far no word has been said to address that...

/RogerE

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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral spire in Paris is completely destroyed

Post by Clapas »

Thank you all for your interest

I am probably old fashioned ( vieux jeu) as they say in France. But I quite agree with the idea that it is better to restore the Cathedral identically or to come as close as possible to it just like for a painting or a Stradivarius. For me and for many of my compatriots the Cathedral is a work of art.

Regarding the choice of wood: The ideal tree for Eugène Viollet-le-Duc's arrow? "Large trees 50, 60, 80 or 90 cm in diameter and 8 to 14 meters high", explained François Hauet one of the experts. However, only hundred-year-old trees, even bicentenary, can boast of such measurements. In addition, wood is the only option that makes it possible to meet the five-year deadline set by the President of the Republic.

When you think about it, the framework of Notre-Dame (and many other cathedrals) has lasted eight centuries without showing the slightest sign of weakness!

Bernard Thibaut, a specialist in tree biomechanics at CNRS, says that wood is quite simply the most sophisticated and modern material in the world. Both flexible and resistant, insulating and indestructible.

Protected from moisture, oak resists insects almost forever. “As for its flammability, you should know that wooden beams resist several hours before collapsing.

This allowed Notre-Dame firefighters to save many precious objects. If the frame had been concrete or steel, they could not have done so for fear of sudden collapse ”
.
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