Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by davo »

Express Delivery was 9d in 1952, so either the Reg. Fee or the Express Fee were not paid. The cover seems to be insufficiently prepaid.
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

So it's under-payed by 9½d amazing nobody noticed that :lol:
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Lundy »

Hi all,

I bought this today as a commercial cover, it is pretty battered, but it was only when I was scanning it I realised it was first day of use!

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It cost me all of 5 pence so it has to be worth at least that? :D

Lundy :D

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Nice cover,Lundy.

It's got a type 11a date-stamp with type 7-6a slogan.
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Seeing I'm here,

1/- Airmail Postcard rate to Canada.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Another,

This time 4/3 rated cover to Egypt paying 2/3 airmail and 2/- Registration fee.

Nice Cairo Airport postmark on the reverse.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Hi All,

Another batch first is cover rated 2/8

5d postage and 2/3 paying compensation up to £10

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

This time cover rated 2/5

Paying 5d postage and 2/- registration fee.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Next cover rated 1/0½d

Paying 3½d postage and 9d registration.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Finally for today

Registered Envelope uprated to 2/10

I think paying 2nd weight letter, 2x5d postage and 2/- registration,If I'm wrong please put me right.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Wayne1951 »

Here is one that chased around the globe. Melbourne to Aden to Naples to Germany. Can someone help me with the top center right cancel on the reverse? Also any thought on value would be appreciated. Thanks.

Wayne

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by doug2222usa »

Here's a few pre-decimals I picked out of my foreign covers. I'll let someone else provide the discussion.

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#1 p/m Lae 22 Jul - backstamped Lae 27 Jul (boomerang?)
#2 big elaborate meter imprint
#3 taxed
#4 selvage imprint on cover, and, "Posted in Pillar Box"

Image

#5 two 2/- overpaid? (small, flimsy little envelope)
#6 philatelic, with se-tenant pairs; also "HM Naval Service"
#7 "commercial papers only"
#8 odd meter imprints

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#9 total 9 backstamps
#10 "unclaimed" and "Dead Letter Office" notice on reverse

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by PeterS »

Doug, your first one is a First Flight cover. The 4/- cover is correct rate for the seaplane (California Clipper) carriage across the Pacific.

The other are, mostly, commercial usage (the Gloucester set is philatelic).
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by doug2222usa »

I chose all commercials because that's what the thread title called for; I showed the Gloucester because it had a jillion backstamps. Also picked examples that had supplementary markings, which I have noted.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by PeterS »

Doug, I can't read the date on the Gloucester but it really doesn't matter. Correct rate would have been 6½d (3d internal airmail fee and 3½d foreign letter rate). Check the date, it is likely to be a FDC.

If it went by air to the USA, the airmail fee would have been the 4/- (for the California Clipper service).
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by doug2222usa »

I had checked the Gloucester; the date of issue is February 19, but this cover is April 28. Just one philatelist helping another.

Note that the cover is Registered, would that change your calculation of the correct postage? Here's the backstamps:

1. Registration indicator, Rialto - April 28.
2. U.S. Navy (indistinct) - May 1.
3. U.S. Army A.P.O. 924 (Melbourne) - May 3.
4. U.S. Army A.P.O. 923 (Brisbane) - May 5.
5. San Francisco - May 10.
6. Philadelphia Receiving - May 31.
7. Philadelphia Kingsessing Station, Registered - May 31.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by PeterS »

Add another 3d for registration. Still overpaid.
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Sark »

I’ve posted these on another thread but they are equally appropriate here. Additionally I would be grateful if someone could give a breakdown of the rate on the Registered Concession Air Mail cover to UK.
Dutch Army in Brisbane 1945 Censored by Aus & Dutch plus a boxed OAT cachet.
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Australian stamps used in Germany! Registered envelope from Parliament House ACT to Germany. Couple of stamps went un-cancelled so the German Sorter on the TPO cancelled them.

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As mentioned above I’m not sure about the rate on this one. A Concession rate (for AIR MAIL from GB armed forces in Australia when writing back to the UK) but unusually sent Registered Mail.
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And finally an Express Air Mail to the USA
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by PBR »

Sark wrote:
Image
A little bit unrelated (sorry), but I'm wondering why the letter was handled by the TPO Freiburg-Basel.

The destination, Neustadt, is about 38 km east of Freiburg and is located at the Freiburg-Donaueschingen railroad-line. The Freiburg-Basel railroad-line is going more or less straight south from Freiburg.

Most likely a mistake of the TPO clerk on the train from Mannheim to Basel via Freiburg, who grabbed the Freiburg-Basel instead of the Mannheim-Freiburg cancellation device.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by PBR »

Sark wrote:I’ve posted these on another thread but they are equally appropriate here. Additionally I would be grateful if someone could give a breakdown of the rate on the Registered Concession Air Mail cover to UK.
Dutch Army in Brisbane 1945 Censored by Aus & Dutch plus a boxed OAT cachet.

Image
9 d was the standard air mail postcard rate to Europe from March/April 1945 on. Source: Breckon, Pre-Decimal Postal Rates.

The OAT cachet adds much value. :D


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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by PBR »

Sark wrote: As mentioned above I’m not sure about the rate on this one. A Concession rate (for AIR MAIL from GB armed forces in Australia when writing back to the UK) but unusually sent Registered Mail.
Image

Image
In 1956 the standard air mail letter rate to Europe was 2 s (up to ½ oz), the registration fee 9 d. In my opinion, this is not franked at concession rate.

Source: Breckon, Pre-Decimal Postal Rates


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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by manfaefife »

The same era as the last cover shown value 2/9d

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by manfaefife »

Same sender same addressee, 2 days later :

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Lundy »

A couple I ended up with today, one On Her Majesty's Service
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And an aerogramme enquiring about stamp publications, but I guess commercial
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Lundy :D

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Lundy,

Malaysian Aerogramme used in Australia unusual and nice to see.
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Rod Perry »

I just scanned through this interesting thread, and note the almost complete absence of non-standard size covers, and other postal articles such as parcel tags likely to bear the higher denominations?

Noted were a few Robes 10/-, and single examples (not necessarily solo frankings) for Arms 10/- and £1 and Navigator 7/6d (philatelic) and 10/-.

There once was a theory that larger covers seldom appeared on eBay and elsewhere because the cost of A3 scanners was prohibitive. Now that they are cheap, it's puzzling why more aren't being seen? I'm not suggesting they are easy to find, I hasten to add.

Can anyone post scans of commercial postal articles bearing Robes 10/- and £1, particularly the Thin papers (these are rare), Arms £1 and £2 (rare), don't bother posting fairly readily available 10/-, and Navigator 7/6d, 10/-, £1 and £2 (now that I hope to see!)?

Exhibitable articles bearing the above are amongst the scarcest (and most underrated!) items of Australian Commonwealth philately, and I've occasionally found those who have them do not appreciate that fact.

Let's see if we can discover some unsung heroes?

I'll undertake to comment on all postings containing the above stamp issues. (please . . . no FDC or other obvious philatelic frankings).

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

It is a non-standard airmail cover. It is underfranked, however, with eight copies of the Young Farmers' Clubs 3 1/2 pence issue from 1953.

Image

The "F" and the "1" beneath it in the tax cachet are a mystery to me. In any case the cover was postmarked in Melbourne in 1953 (rest of date obscure) and mailed to England.

The cover appears to be non-philatelic.

Best wishes,
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by davo »

Andrew, The Octagon tax handstamp is listed in "T for Tax" Colin Salt-Richard Peck as Melbourne #186a, usage dates 1952 to 1965. Deficiency was calculated as 20 'Gold Centimes'. Not sure what the conversion rate was then. Also, not sure what the 'F' and '1' are for?
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Hi All,

My recent additions,

Brisbane (3 Dec 1958)to Argentina rated 8/9½ paying 3x 2/6 Airmail rate to South America + 1/3 Registration fee over-payed by ½d

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Another

This time a Registered Envelope

Rated 9/3 if anybody can give me more details on the rate,as Registration was 3d and Airmail was 1/6 per ½oz to USA
this must have heavy contents something like 3oz. seems pretty heavy?

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by PBR »

agondocz wrote:It is a non-standard airmail cover. It is underfranked, however, with eight copies of the Young Farmers' Clubs 3 1/2 pence issue from 1953.

Image

davo wrote:Andrew, The Octagon tax handstamp is listed in "T for Tax" Colin Salt-Richard Peck as Melbourne #186a, usage dates 1952 to 1965. Deficiency was calculated as 20 'Gold Centimes'. Not sure what the conversion rate was then. Also, not sure what the 'F' and '1' are for?
The conversion rate was 20 UPU ctms = 7 ½ d (first weight step international surface mail rate).

Postage paid was 2 s 4 d. As far as I know, a second weight step air mail letter to the UK was 4 s, so the letter was short paid 1 s 8 d. Double the deficiency 3 s 4 d was equivalent to 106 UPU cmts, then. For me, the 20 ctms taxation looks odd. :?

Anyone able to help out?


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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Rod Perry »

quicksingle

The 9/3d registered cover rate above you worked out yourself?

1/6d per ½oz. x6 (9/-) + 3d registration fee = 9/3d

The distinctive handwriting is that of the legendary 102 year old Ken Baker, and likely contained a quantity of stamps.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Rod,

Thank you for confirming my maths.

Yes there is a Baker & Maloney stamp on the back.

I think it's the highest rated cover I've got so far.
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Lundy »

Hi all,

Here is a 5/- robes on cover, censored I was curious about the Jerusalem, Federal Territory postmark.

Can anybody confirm the rate is ok? At first I thought a stamp may have been removed at the left but there is no evidence of this I can see so just the postmark not applied evenly I think

Any other information most welcome!

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Thanks

Lundy :D

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Rod Perry »

Rate was 5/10d, so 1d stamp is missing.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Lundy »

Thanks Rod,

That is a shame, fancy taking the penny stamp off a nice cover like this....

Lundy :D

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Hi All,

Double Rate Airmail letter from CSR Chemicals (22 Fe 1962) rated 4/6

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Another,

Air Letter rated 7d.

Not an Australian Air Letter if anybody knows where it came let me know.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

And finally,

Airmail cover from Melbourne 24 Au 1934 to London rated 1/-

6d per ½oz. for Karachi - London Airmail fee
3d Internal airmail fee
2d Postage
1d Late Fee

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Frank_King »

More humble than many of the preceeding covers, but I couldn't find an example of a solo use the 5d KGV sideface on this thread:

Image

It could not have been enough to pay airmail all the way to New York, and I notice blue lines through "Air Mail". Could it have just paid the internal airfare in Australia?

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Rod Perry »

Frank_King

The internal (domestic) airmail rate was 3d per ½oz., and the Foreign letter rate 3d per oz., so paid adequately only for surface for the whole journey, hence scoring-out of Air Mail inscription.

KGV 5d is common as a solo franking in the 1930s.

Looking forward to inspecting postings of commercial postal articles bearing Robes 10/- and £1, Arms £1 and £2, and Navigator 7/6d, 10/-, £1 and £2.

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Frank_King »

Rod Perry wrote:Frank_King

The internal (domestic) airmail rate was 3d per ½oz., and the Foreign letter rate 3d per oz., so paid adequately only for surface for the whole journey, hence scoring-out of Air Mail inscription.

KGV 5d is common as a solo franking in the 1930s.
Thanks Rod. I'll file it as a curiosity under "What was the sender thinking?"

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by agondocz »

Thank you davo and pbr for taking the time to answer my questions.

For now, I have put the farmers cover aside. Perhaps I can make a bit more sense of it after reading about pre-decimal rates.

In the meantime this cover has me a bit stumped:

Image

As far as I can tell there was no concession rate to the United States from Australia, despite the R.A.A.F. SERVICE cachet. The rate was two shillings which is what the 6d Kookaburra and 1/6 Messenger paid for a cover that was mailed on 14 JAN 1954. Perhaps the cachet means that the RAAF provided the mail service for this cover to the States?

Best wishes,
AndrewG

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by davo »

Andrew, you are correct, there was no concession rate to the US and the postage is also correct. I have not seen this RAAF handstamp before and have no idea.
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Global Administrator »

quicksingle wrote:Hi All,

Double Rate Airmail letter from CSR Chemicals (22 Fe 1962) rated 4/6

Image
At first glance it looks philatelic, but in hindsight it probably is commercial - whats do others think?

Pretty smeary and untidy RHODES cancels, so does not have a collector smell to it.

THREE of the 1/6d stamps made the correct 4/6d rate, or 4 or the 1/- Columbo and a 6d .. all values the clerk clearly had in their drawer.

Maybe post it here for comment -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=22838

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by CHzug1291 »

I just received some covers from a Swiss friend, found in a 1.00 CHF box at a stamp fair :D

It seems to me, some of them from soldiers in Military/ holding camps in Australia :?: who wrote to nursing staff, working at the main hospital in Rottweil, Germany

from Cowra, NSW


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from Walgrove Hostel

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Railway Camp, Moe Vic

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I would appreciate your comments!

Peter
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traralgon3844
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by traralgon3844 »

I would be happy paying 1 Euro each for those covers. Very Nice. Can he find me some? :mrgreen:

Cowra Camp PO 28/4/1949; closed 3/2/1956. The postmark would not be common.

The Ones from Moe were posted at the Post Office, but the writer could have been living in one of the huts to the right in the photo below. There is also a little annecdote about how the TPO worked.

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I just picked this seemingly underpaid 1948 Air Mail cover to the U.S.A. But look closer and it is only paying the Air Mail rate in the U.S.A. with a 6d Kookaburra solo.

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Lundy
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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by Lundy »

A couple I bought at the weekend as they seemed very cheap

A little weathered but a 6/6d cover with 5/- arms for £1.50
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A 2/- On Her Majesty's Service cover with G NSW perfin for a £1 surely a bargain
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Lundy :D

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by torstenweller »

here is a selection of pre-decimal covers on offer in our current Postal History Auction
- there is one for Rod (although the block of 5/- Arms is not quite a £1 or £2)
- and a PTPO item for Neill (plus another 400+ new Stationery items on https://www.torstenweller.com; the post on the "Share here your Australian Postal Stationery pieces" topic shows some examples)

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Australia 1918 KGV 1d red "Star" envelope PTPO for Board of Water Supply inscribed OHMS with KGV ½d green perf OS / NSW added

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Australia 1930 Trans-Australian Railway illustrated advertising cover airmail to Brisbane with KGV 3d blue and 2d red both perf OS

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Australia 1938 airmail to USA "via England" with KGV 5d brown single sent by surface with Perth "INSUFFICIENTLY PAID FOR AIR TRANSMISSION" cachet (paid for Empire Airmail rate but ineligible as it was addressed to USA)

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Australia 1939 airmail to Sweden with KGVI 2d red (9) and QE 1d green (2) underpaid with Melborne "RETURNED FOR / ADDITIONAL POSTAGE" cachet and 6d Kookaburra added

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Australia 1941 airmail to England posted on board ship with 9d Platypus (7), 5d Ram and KGVI 2d red tied Townsville, Qld PAQUEBOT cachets via PanAm FAM-19 and FAM-18 services censored

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Australia 1944 to Ireland with KGVI 2½d red single tied LONGFORD / TAS datestamp censored with Launceston tape and cachet and green Irish cachet

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Australia 1944 to Sweden with 6d Kookaburra and QE 1d brown paying 7d rate for surface mail to England and London - Sweden airmail service censored (due to Germany's blockade the only way into Sweden was by airmail carried in part by RAF Mosquito fighter-bombers)

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Australia 1946 Parcel Post Customs Declaration label to England with 1/- Lyre Bird and 9d Platypus paying small packets rate

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Australia 1949 airmail to Cyprus with KGVI 2d violet and ½d Kangaroo underpaid and sent surface mail with INSUFFICIENTLY PAID cachet

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Australia 1953 large cover airmail to USA with 5/- Arms (7), 2/- Crocodile (14) and 1/- Lyre Bird paying thirty-five times 2/- airmail letter rate
our current Postal History Auction is available at https://www.torstenweller.com/auctions and will close at 9pm sharp next Wednesday 16 April

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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Cov

Post by quicksingle »

Hi All,

Very nice PTPO cover Torsten, but well out of my price league.
Neill - Always looking for Australian PTPO covers

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