WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

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WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by mstech »

With the COVID-19 lock-down, this is the perfect time for me to get back to philatelic projects that I have been putting on hold.

This is a long shot, but I am looking for Australian commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo stamp, particularly those with non-standard (e.g. 2nd weight-step and above) rates.

Let me know if your have them and your price.

Thanks!

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by Global Administrator »

Well EVERY new thread here MUST have an image of some kind, which you realise full well.

So here is something remotely related, to keep that policy intact, despite the thread starter not bothering to do so. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Image
Australia cover franked with ½d orange Kangaroo stamp Coil Blocks 4
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/AFD852-Australia-1953-d-orange-Kanga ... 3631630000
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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by mstech »

Sorry, Sheriff. I just got back my PC yesterday. I found it impossible to insert a picture using a mobile phone.

It would be something like this, though I think this is more philatelic than commercial.

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by danyeung »

Like this one ?

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by Global Administrator »

Alex .. Rex Allison was a VERY active collector.

1d was never the domestic rate in WW2, domestic - AFAIK. :)

I bought a wonderful album of Allison's covering KGVI/QE2 early booklets - an absolute gold mine lot I sold intact as received, and had heaps of letters to Allison - a few below -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=87292
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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by Temora22 »

Yes, Rex Allison certainly must have been avery active collector. I have seen many WWII military covers addressed to him in the same distinctive writing.

1d was the Forces concession letter rate within Australia during WWII.

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by danyeung »

Hi Glen,

Very nice booklets collection.

The cover looks commercial to me, judging from the way the stamps were affixed :)

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by danyeung »

The cover was roughly opened.

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by Temora22 »

In my opinion, confidently given after more than twenty years of collecting Australian WWII military postal history, the Allison cover postmarked at Melbourne on 6 February 1940 is not commercial.

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by danyeung »

Hi Temora22,

Thanks for your comment.

Can you share why you believe the cover is not commercial ? Thanks.

And if it is not commercial, what is the philatelic purpose of the cover ?

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by Temora22 »

Hi danyeung,

Rex Allison was one of a number of collectors (Bill Leek from Ashfield in NSW was another whose covers can still be found today) who would send stamped, self-addressed envelopes under separate cover to post masters or other contacts at military camps with a request to service and return the envelopes.

I understand their main aims were to obtain examples of the postmarks (and, in some cases, registration labels and other markings) in use at the military post offices at these camps. In the early years of WWII there was a proliferation of new camps and bases being established. Some of the markings, particularly the early provisional ones, were only in use at the post offices for a short time. Without the efforts of collectors such as Allison and Leek it is likely that some of the markings would not have been recorded. Nonetheless, the resulting covers are philatelic.

You mention the placement of the stamps on your cover. I suspect this was a device to obtain a couple of strikes of any relevant postmark. Although there was a Mil PO open at the at The Showgrounds, Melbourne, at the date of your cover it appears that mail was then being sent to the GPO in Melbourne where the machine cancel was used.

Here are a couple of other Allison covers:

Image

Image

Hope this helps.

Regards,

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by danyeung »

Hi Temora22,

Thanks for sharing. What you said makes sense. However, I am hesitated to conclude the cover is not commercial.

Here is my other Rex cover which is similar to yours. The cover was not open (didn't have to as self-addressed).

Image

The two roos on the cover are not neatly placed as yours, in particular the right one. The cover was roughly opened with part of the back flap missing. These are typical signs of a commercial cover.

There are some differences on the address written too - no "Victoria" and the "t" of Williamstown are different though I agree the rest looks like from the same person.

The markings on the cover are "10th Provost Company, Showgrounds, Ascot Vale" and "Base Details Camp, 3 Dist Command". Were these markings done by the military post office of the camp ? Was it common not to cancelled the cover in the office but sending it to Melbourne GPO for machine cancellation ?
Image

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by BigSaint »

Something I bought off Glen a while back :)
Global Administrator wrote:Something with very unusual Kangaroo stamp usage I listed up here today. :)

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PNG “PRINTED MATTER” 3d rate to USA 1952 using Ozzie stamps

PAPUA NEW GUINEA - 1952: Australian Kangaroo definitives making up the correct rate to the USA for printed matter (3d) rate, with full, clear FINSCHAFEN cds postmarks of August 14, 1952.

The only “Printed Matter” concessional rate I have ever seen. And with FINSCHAFEN origin, a real bonus as near all mail was from Port Moresby and Lae and Rabaul. And to KENTUCKY really seals the deal!

The regular postage rate to USA was much higher cost of course. The regular postage rate to USA was much higher cost of course. Over 60 yeas old, and nice condition.

It was not until October 30 1952 that the PNG first Definitive issue to £1 was released, and Australian stamps were used until that time, and all Australian stamps were still valid for all postal purposes.

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by mstech »

Hi BigSaint,

What a nice cover you bought from Glen. I would have loved to have it!

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by Temora22 »

Hi again danyeung,

The "10th Provost Company, Showgrounds, Ascot Vale" and "Base Details Camp, 3 Dist Command" markings would have been applied by somebody in the Showgrounds Camp, not necessarily at the PO. Like the "No.7 Elementary Flying Training School" cachet on your other cover, they were used to evidence entitlement to the 1d Forces concession rate.

Your Showgrounds cover is dated February 1940 - at this very early stage of WWII it is very likely that a dedicated datestamp had not been allocated to the Mil PO (which later became a RAAF PO). This may explain the use of the Melbourne postmark. It is not uncommon, in my experience, to find Forces may posted through civil POs from time to time.

I've seen many "Allison" covers - each addressed in the same handwriting and posted at POs from the three branches of the services, from many locations and throughout WWII. (I also have one from BCOF Japan in 1950). No one serviceman could have had such a varied career or physical access to so many services POs.

For me, the inescapable conclusion is that these covers are philatelic.

My apologies to mstech for diverting your thread - good luck with your quest for ½d orange Roo covers!

Regards,

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by Global Administrator »

Very often folks like Allison or Reverend Joyce and Ray Simpson etc, philatelically created the ONLY known examples of postal markings, handstamps, or cancels.

Hugh Freeman told me when writing his opus NSW numeral cancle book that the highest recorded NSW numeral is 2099 of Toolejah – the unique strike is shown nearby.
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Unique NSW “2099” numeral of Toolejah

The sad story of how this “2099” and several other unique higher numbers on 1d Roos came to exist, is well worth telling.

In 1913 and 1914 – near commencement of WW1, two brothers wrote to Postmasters of all small NSW PO's, and enclosed SAE envelopes, with a 1d Red Roo stamp affixed.

The PMs were asked to please neatly cancel the cover with their circular cancel, and their numeral, and mail it back.

These later ended up in the collection of Norm Hopson, one of the PHILAS founders, and for a long time, Postmaster of Clarence Street.

His cancel collection was left to PHILAS, where it still remains. The 2 brothers went to Europe to fight in WWI, and never returned.

A very sad story, but many otherwise unique strikes are due to their enterprise and initiative, with their pocket money pennies.

So it is possible many of the smaller PO higher numerals exist in Roo collections, not NSW collections.

Of these 2100 numbers - despite an army of collectors scouring the earth over several generations – a goodly number of numerals have never been sighted.

Many numbers of course exist in a myriad of styles, variants, designs and sub-types. All are clearly illustrated and rarity-rated in Hugh's fine book. This is Lindfield PO in 1907, complete with itinerant "swaggie" - a Sydney suburb on the busy Pacific Highway - a little while before Hugh moved there!
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(Lindfield NSW Post Office 1907)

Image
Lindfield Post Office NSW 2020.
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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by Global Administrator »

Image

Image
Arthur Bergen from Adelaide was quite a character. Another well known FDC maker, and great mate of Nelson Eustis and John Gower, founder of Wesley Covers, and he created many covers with markings not likely ever possible to see otherwise.

Arthur told me he worked for Wrigleys Chewing gum for many years as a sales rep, and drove to all kinds of totally remote places, flogging gum!

As we know he was a prolific cachet maker, and had a sharp philatelic eye and visited many remote specks in outback SA and NT selling Wrigley's gum, and asked POs there to create these kinds of covers with their old cds in forgotten drawers etc, and use all the instructional marking handstamps in the building. Apart from his use, some of them are near unrecorded!

The handstamps from Mildura above are one perfect example.

I had a huge A4 envelope once, that Arthur affixed letter rate stamps to and had every outback PO lean-to, added a cds to. OODLA-WIRRA etc, using their ancient Squared Circle handstamps from the safe etc. Can't find the scan, but it was an amazing cover!
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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by danyeung »

Hi Temora22 & Glen,

Thanks for making this thread very interesting and informative.

Hi Brad,

I have a very similar cover with same typed address to Dr. Allan Hauck, block of six paying printed matter rate, this time from Oakey :)

Image

Hi mstech,

My apologies too for diverting your thread.

Here is another cover for your interest - foreign printed matter rate to Colombia South America, with Colombia arrival postmark at the back of the cover.

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by mstech »

Hi all, no need for apologies for the diversion. I am more than happy that my WTB thread managed to spin off such an informative and interesting discussion!

danyeung - I sent you an email through the Stampboards email system. Did you receive it?

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by danyeung »

Hi mstech,

I received your email and replied.

Share this tatty one which I like. Solo ½d with 7d postage dues. The domestic rate was 3½d in July 1954 so 6d should be the correct postage dues. It was marked T7d then T6d twice. Looks like it was overpaid by 1d (postage due).

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by Wayne1951 »

mstech wrote:With the COVID-19 lock-down, this is the perfect time for me to get back to philatelic projects that I have been putting on hold.

This is a long shot, but I am looking for Australian commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo stamp, particularly those with non-standard (e.g. 2nd weight-step and above) rates.

Let me know if your have them and your price.

Thanks!
Andrew

Does this fit?


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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by colinscovers »

Hi

Was sorting out some other Australian covers and found these. Of the 2 solo use one looks commercial and the other philatelic but does have the gutter between the 2 blocks. No idea if this is unusual or not.

Have also used this as my first post to use the new upload images system. Very easy. Well done and thank you.

Colin
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1 2 kangaroo 2.jpg
1 2 kangaroo.jpg

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by mstech »

colinscovers wrote:
12 Jun 2020 03:24
Hi

Was sorting out some other Australian covers and found these. Of the 2 solo use one looks commercial and the other philatelic but does have the gutter between the 2 blocks. No idea if this is unusual or not.

Have also used this as my first post to use the new upload images system. Very easy. Well done and thank you.

Colin

Image
Hi colinscovers, may I know what's the date of cancellation on the first Kangaroo cover (the one to Canada)?

Thanks.

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by colinscovers »

Hi

Hope this helps. The year date has one slug not clear but it is inscribed on the back Mar 24 /39 so think it is 27 Feb 39.

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by colinscovers »

Found another one. Receiving mark on reverse is 31st July 1940
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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by MJ's pet »

mstech, are you still looking for covers?

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by mstech »

Hi colincovers,

Sorry for the late response. Thanks for the scans and the date on the Canada cover. The 4 ½d orange Kangaroo stamps on the cover to Canada paid the 2d letter rate within Australia and British Empire (rate in place between 4 Aug 1930 to 9 Dec 1941). Similar to your second cover (to England, with receiving mark 31 Jul 1940). Unfortunately, I already have quite a number of such covers.

The cover with the gutter between the 2 blocks, though philatelic, looks interesting. Again, do you happen to have the date? The year looks 1955, but I don't trust my deteriorating eyesight...

Thanks.

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by mstech »

MJ's pet wrote:
30 Jul 2020 12:22
mstech, are you still looking for covers?
Yes, MJ's pet. Still on the lookout, particularly those paying non-standard (e.g. 2nd weight-step and above) rates. You have such covers in your collection? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by MJ's pet »

Hi mstech, do you have a private email address you are contactable by? cheers

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Re: WTB - commercial covers with only the ½d orange Kangaroo

Post by mstech »

MJ's pet wrote:
01 Aug 2020 13:38
Hi mstech, do you have a private email address you are contactable by? cheers
Yes, MJ's pet. Board email sent!

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