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Peter, have you seen an upright watermark stamp for sale?Price differential is; CTO with inverted WMK is $75, with upright WMK is $500.
'Standard' CTO from collector's packs. Were available in those packs up until the early 1940s.Is this a CTO cancel, or contrived cancel? Anyone care to place a value on this copy? Sorry, I don't have the back image......
Clive, I don't remember seeing one. They must almost certainly exists though, otherwise would probably be unpriced in ACSC.clive willingham wrote:I suppose that there would have been a few CTO 1/- stamps with their watermarks the right way up - from the presentation sets dated April 1913.
Peter, have you seen an upright watermark stamp for sale?Price differential is; CTO with inverted WMK is $75, with upright WMK is $500.
As for the 'standard' CTO stamp, it is often poorly centred. A really well-centred stamp with good perfs is uncommon.
Clive
Me neither. That makes it one very rare stamp I would think.Clive, I don't remember seeing one. They must almost certainly exists though, otherwise would probably be unpriced in ACSC.
Thank you Clive!clive willingham wrote:'Standard' CTO from collector's packs. Were available in those packs up until the early 1940s.Is this a CTO cancel, or contrived cancel? Anyone care to place a value on this copy? Sorry, I don't have the back image......
Much less common postally used.
CTO 5/- Bridges are fetching $200-240, although I've seen a few on eBay go for less than $200 recently. Nice copies always get a little extra. I don't think the price of these, CTO or mint has changed much in the past twenty years.
There seems to be an awful lot of five bob bridges around.
Clive
clive willingham wrote:
Guru Glen, what say you, have you sighted an upright watermark CTO first watermark 1/-?
Clive
Absolutely correct, Clive........if I decide to get a "good" copy, Glen is on top of my list.clive willingham wrote:John,
If this is up on e-Bay recent form suggests it will probably go for around the $175-200 mark. It is a bit rough.
Honestly, mate, for twenty, thirty or forty dollars more you will do a whole lot better by way of a better-centred stamp with good perfs. Buying one in this condition, I always think in a few years, (or weeks in my case) I'll be saying to myself 'why didn't I wait and pay the extra for a good quality stamp?' I wonder how much money I've wasted over the years not following my own advice!!![]()
Glen would likely have something that would fit your bill if you are keen on getting hold of a copy (thinks: do I get a discount for touting Stevo?).
Clive
Yours does, Andrew's does not.clive willingham wrote:Andrew,
The KGVI 3d looks okay to me.
Johnh, of one thing you can be fairly certain, unless a cancel on a 5/- bridge covers a reasonable portion of the stamp and it is a quarter corner cancel, then is CTO. CTO is, by far the cheapest way of buying a Bridge. Postally used are hard to come by and attract something like a 100% premium, condition for condition. Nobody would apply a fake CTO cancel to a mint, even mint no gum, as it would devalue the stamp immediately.librarianc wrote:Absolutely correct, Clive........if I decide to get a "good" copy, Glen is on top of my list.clive willingham wrote:John,
If this is up on e-Bay recent form suggests it will probably go for around the $175-200 mark. It is a bit rough.
Honestly, mate, for twenty, thirty or forty dollars more you will do a whole lot better by way of a better-centred stamp with good perfs. Buying one in this condition, I always think in a few years, (or weeks in my case) I'll be saying to myself 'why didn't I wait and pay the extra for a good quality stamp?' I wonder how much money I've wasted over the years not following my own advice!!![]()
Glen would likely have something that would fit your bill if you are keen on getting hold of a copy (thinks: do I get a discount for touting Stevo?).
Clive
I was really looking for comments on if this was a CTO or not. Not being a clear cancel, I'm not close to being able to determine what it is.......CTO, rough postally used, old bottle cap (as Glen would say), etc. The condition and centering doesn't really appeal to me, unless it's under 3 figures, but then only MAYBE!!
I'm afraid I am with Glen on this one.clive willingham wrote:Glen,
You are a harsh taskmaster.
Andrew, I'm sticking my neck out going against the Master, but I still think your stamp is kosher CTO. But then I'm often wrong, and he seldom is.![]()
Clive
You are both probably quite right and I'm probably quite wrong.I'm afraid I am with Glen on this one.
The KGVI small values CTO letters were sharp and crisp, (like the 5d) and the 3d is not.
Unless it has gum, a total non starter in my book.
You also do not get severely ripped out perfs on the KGVI era CTOs IME.
A minefield.clive willingham wrote:Glen,
Have you thought about issuing expertising certificates?![]()
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Clive
Dave, think of it this way. We know these sets are worth far more than catalogue, but a lot of others do not. Therein lies an opportunity.davpot wrote:Well, I was afraid of that! Nice set there Clive! I have to say, I have NEVER until now, seen the NSW set CTOd! And just look at the ACSC value on the Cable set! A real example of "fill-in valuations (IMHO) How else could Anyone have come up with 10.00 for a full set??? I was FLOORED when I saw that! (Supply and demand?....Im miffed..)
Very Nice Set indeed Clive!
Dave
: )
You're absolutely right Dave, and there are also many of the KGVI era CTO issues which have been arbitrarily priced at $10.00 or less in the ACSC. Try finding a 1937 1/- lyrebird definitive, catalogued at $8.00!davpot wrote:Well, I was afraid of that! Nice set there Clive! I have to say, I have NEVER until now, seen the NSW set CTOd! And just look at the ACSC value on the Cable set! A real example of "fill-in valuations (IMHO) How else could Anyone have come up with 10.00 for a full set??? I was FLOORED when I saw that! (Supply and demand?....Im miffed..)
Very Nice Set indeed Clive!
Dave
: )
Words of wisdom for we small band of CTO brothers-in-arms.Dave, think of it this way. We know these sets are worth far more than catalogue, but a lot of others do not. Therein lies an opportunity.
See some in a dealers stock (especially in the USA) and you will likely be able to get them quite cheaply. I have seen US dealers calling them FU and pricing them accordingly. That is how I ened up with full gum, unhinged Officials for next to nothing.
Someone around here has been known to say words to the effect of "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER." This was never truer in the circumstance of offical Australian CTOs.
So, so true. The first series of KGVI is of course extremely hard, but even the later issues are still very difficult to find.You're absolutely right Dave, and there are also many of the KGVI era CTO issues which have been arbitrarily priced at $10.00 or less in the ACSC. Try finding a 1937 1/- lyrebird definitive, catalogued at $8.00!
Do you think we are doing ourselves a disservice by highlighting this?I also suspect there are many dealers out there who don't understand the true worth of genuine CTOs. I still pick them up being sold as VFU, and amazingly, at FU prices!
What, thought you needed a spare?I bought a halo from Tandy, and it was a free side effect.
clive willingham wrote:Back to the topic before I get into trouble.
Although we've been looking at the KGV and KGVI (and KEVIII) eras, where the glamour is, the CTO tradition extends into the 1970s.
Does anyone collect QE2 CTOs? These are from a 1965 collector's pack of Australia, Australian Antarctic Territory and Cocos (Keeling) Islands.
As you can see, the cancel is the Melbourne Philatelic Bureau. Most of the stamps in the pack have selvedge attached. In 1966, for the first decimal collector's pack, the cancels had reverted to the Melbourne GPO cancel. Most of the stamps had selvedge attached.
The 40c Tasman is from a 1967 pack. No selvedge on any of these.
I think those first photogravure birds are among the best stamps Australia has produced. So are the navigators.
Clive
Glen, that can't have been a Specimen set cancel. Only face different current stamps were included in sets by then and multiples weren't supplied. The sheets of uncut booklet panes were only available at the Philatelic Bureau, using up unneeded stamps.GlenStephens wrote:clive willingham wrote:Back to the topic before I get into trouble.
Although we've been looking at the KGV and KGVI (and KEVIII) eras, where the glamour is, the CTO tradition extends into the 1970s.
Does anyone collect QE2 CTOs? These are from a 1965 collector's pack of Australia, Australian Antarctic Territory and Cocos (Keeling) Islands.
As you can see, the cancel is the Melbourne Philatelic Bureau. Most of the stamps in the pack have selvedge attached. In 1966, for the first decimal collector's pack, the cancels had reverted to the Melbourne GPO cancel. Most of the stamps had selvedge attached.
The 40c Tasman is from a 1967 pack. No selvedge on any of these.
I think those first photogravure birds are among the best stamps Australia has produced. So are the navigators.
Clive
I sold this recently quite cheaply .. full gum CTO - Plate "2" block.
Was curious HOW it got the CTO cancel.
As I said, Peter, I agree. That doesn't alter the fact that the term CTO has a much wider use.Clive, it's pretty simple really. If it qualifies for ACSC Catalogue status it is CTO, anything else is per favour. That is my opinion, in any case.
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