France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf stamp - whose forgery is this?

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MarkoSK
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France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf stamp - whose forgery is this?

Post by MarkoSK »

Hello,

I got this stamp same time ago from estate for a few bucks.

Didn't have time to check it carefully and took it away as forgery.

But what if it is real? If forgery, what forger - because artwork is nice.

If reprint, what reprint? France is not my cup of tea.

I think it can not be real genuine because some parts are drawn in different way than genuine 1Fr vermilion I have seen in auctions.

fra1849.jpg
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Re: France 1849 - 1Fr Vermilion, but what is it in real?

Post by Parisboy »

Possibly a Sperati forgery.

Chris.
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Re: France 1849 - 1Fr Vermilion, but what is it in real?

Post by MarkoSK »

Hi Chris,
thank you for reply.

Majority of Speratis are photo-litho so drawing should be same as genuine but litho print.
This one is typo print.
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Re: France 1849 - 1Fr Vermilion, but what is it in real?

Post by Allanswood »

Looks like a forgery to me, the design is not the same as a genuine.

And an original stamp is very valuable.
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by MarkoSK »

I do not understand why my title was changed to "is it genuine?"
I know it is not genuine.

I never asked if it is genuine. I asked what is it and if author is known or not.


Here is side by side comparison with genuine one.
france 1849.jpg
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by bathurst stamper »

I'm not sure it's a Sperati forgery, or a Sperati reproduction.

The lettering looks too fine.

Given this stamp's status, I'm sure there's plenty of modern forgeries around.
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by Allanswood »

It's not a Sperati, he didn't make mistakes with the designs, he photographed them.
And it's not a Spiro either. There are 6 or more forgeries known, most unnamed. One of them is yours.


And for the OP, it's not a reprint either.

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Re: France 1849 - 1Fr Vermilion, but what is it in real?

Post by AdmiralCollector »

MarkoSK wrote: 27 Jul 2023 22:24
Majority of Speratis are photo-litho so drawing should be same as genuine but litho print.
This one is typo print.
This one looks like it was printed by lithography, not letter press (typography). I do see any "ink squeeze" which is found on stamps printed by letter press (typography).
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by MarkoSK »

It is typography. Ink squeez is very good visible. Here is detail.
typo_scan.jpg
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by 32_seeker »

It is a Fournier forgery to my eye (think fourth type) but I will defer further identification to experts on this board more learned than I. The colour match is excellent.
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by Allanswood »

This is a Fournier forgery. I would not have thought that he drew a new design for the head.

The leaf arrangement at the back of the head does not match the OP forgery.
And there is a dot rather than a dash between the S and 1 on the bottom right.

Fournier France 1849 forgery.JPG

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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by AdmiralCollector »

MarkoSK wrote: 30 Jul 2023 04:59 It is typography. Ink squeez is very good visible. Here is detail.

Image
I'm not so sure . . . Looks lithographed to me.
See below to see close-up photos of "ink-squeeze" and compare. See how even the finest of lines have a dark outline at the edges -- that is ink-squeeze.
Ink-squeeze on letterpress (typography) printing process.
Ink-squeeze on letterpress (typography) printing process.
However, since it has been identified as a Fournier forgery, that pretty much tells me it is lithographed. A web page on forgeries of stamps of Lombardy & Venitia ( http://stampforgeries.com/forged-stamps-of-lombardy-venetia/ ) says Fournier produced his forgieries by lithography: "Philatelic forgeries were made later on, the most famous ones being Fournier’s lithographically printed . . ."
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by Allanswood »

I didn't mean to confuse, I'm not yet convinced that it is a Fournier, as the Fournier I showed is different to the OP stamp.

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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by AdmiralCollector »

Allanswood wrote: 30 Jul 2023 12:56 I didn't mean to confuse, I'm not yet convinced that it is a Fournier, as the Fournier I showed is different to the OP stamp.

OK.
Still looks lithographed to me -- Fournier or not Fournier.
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by OldDuffer1 »

MarkoSK wrote: 27 Jul 2023 23:44 I do not understand why my title was changed to "is it genuine?"
I know it is not genuine.

I never asked if it is genuine. I asked what is it and if author is known or not.
Hate to "rain on your parade" but your words were "But what if it is real?". I think this means the same thing!
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by MarkoSK »

OldDuffer1 wrote: 30 Jul 2023 22:14
MarkoSK wrote: 27 Jul 2023 23:44 I do not understand why my title was changed to "is it genuine?"
I know it is not genuine.

I never asked if it is genuine. I asked what is it and if author is known or not.
Hate to "rain on your parade" but your words were "But what if it is real?". I think this means the same thing!
Dear Sir, this was original title.
I was´t sure about reprint. Do not know there are reprints in different drawing as in USA first issue.
Or it is forgery and if yes, what forger.
1849.jpg
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by Global Admin »

READ Rule 32 -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2556

Your original heading was meaningless gibberish so it was changed into English.

Email Admin if you do not like it. :idea:

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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf - is it genuine?

Post by MarkoSK »

Global Admin wrote: 31 Jul 2023 01:55 READ Rule 32 -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2556

Your original heading was meaningless gibberish so it was changed into English.

Email Admin if you do not like it. :idea:

Admin
Dear admin,
I have sent you an email.
please use your excellent english skills and change it to the way that I asked you in email.
thank you
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf stamp - whose forgery is this?

Post by nlphil »

It is NEITHER a Sperati (see below) nor one sold by Fournier (see below)

Also not the 1862? reprint

The Sperati if Type A (his best) has specific features not found here.

I have this forgery and never ID it. I have about 2 dozen different ones and it does not match any of the better know forgers.

1F TB Canc.jpg
1F Repro A.jpg
fra1849.jpg

It is east to ID - the top leaf in the laurel is not split and these is a large dash instead of a dot between the S and 1.
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Re: France 1849 - 1 Franc Vermilion imperf stamp - whose forgery is this?

Post by Justin »

For some reason my eyes are immediately drawn to the bottom right corner of the stamp, the part above the "X" shape in the corner. Why is your stamp's white squiggly line completely different to all the other stamps shown in this thread? The 'tail' of yours ends on the right side, while all of the others ends on the left side of that "X".
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