FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

A few positions (I believe 5) on the 6c xxx on 63c sheets have a narrower gap (1.5mm) than the one I posted earlier (2.5mm). I think it follows the same overprint matrix that they used for the last 6c xxx on 44c printing - I'm not 100% sure because I never got any of the last 6c xxx on 44c printing and I tried to figure it out from what I saw on eBay. What I'm not sure about is position 80 on the last 44c printing- my notes say it also had a narrow gap, but it may have been that position is just shifted left as it is shifted left on the new 6c xxx on 63c (or they could have fixed the gap and in the process moved it left).
Fiji 6 63 narrow.jpg
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

On the new 23c xxx on 63c, there are 9 positions that have a medium large xxx instead of the normal small xxx (I believe this was the same for the final printing of the 23c xxx on 44c). In the image below, the top stamp in the pair has the larger xxx.
Fiji 23 63 pair.jpg
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

On the new 5c xxx on 63c, there are 10 positions that have a narrower gap between the c and the xxx.

narrow gap on left, normal gap on right
Fiji 5 63 pair.jpg
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

Steve Zirinsky was recently in Fiji. I had asked him to see if he could find out why they keep issuing 6c & 23c overprints. This was his informative response:

"They use everything. Lots of 63 c stamps ….even 40 c stamps from the early 80s - architectural series etc. all the post offices had stuff- 5C, 50 c and so on. $15 souvenir sheets are also used.

Everything is needed because they have all these odd values that they need to work from. And it was the same in all three offices I went to.
"
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

Our old "friend" position 70 is still with us on the 40c overprints.

On the 40c xxx pos 70 has no gap between the c and xxx
40 xxx.jpg
On the 40c XX pos 70 has a narrower gap (1.5mm instead of 2.5mm)
40 XX.jpg
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

Here's the latest entry in my "Fiji used abroad" collecion.

Posted in Iceland on 12th July 2023, delivered in Greater Manchester 19th July 2023.

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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

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While most of the 2c xxx on 63c have a 2.5mm gap, one position has a narrower 1.5mm gap.
scan027.jpg
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

While most of the recent 20c xx on 63 printing appears to be the same as that from a few years ago (Scott 1347), there are a few positions with a wider 2.5mm gap (not the same as the 3.25mm gap on 1347b).
scan029.jpg
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

While most of the 1c xxx on 63c have a 3.5mm gap, there are some that are 2.5mm (upper left in this image) and some that are 1.5mm (lower left in this image):
scan036.jpg
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

According to a post on The Pacific Islands Study Circle, "New Post Fiji postage rates which took effect on 1st August 2023 & which take account of the VAT rate increase (from 9% to 15%) effective the same day." My computer refuses to open the file, so I do not know what the rates are.

I did find a December 2022 Fiji Times article that says in part:
"Post Fiji is proposing that the “first 30g fraction thereof surface mail or air mail” that currently costs 42 cents be changed to “first 100g fraction thereof surface mail or air mail”, with a new price of $2.", which would be a huge increase.
followed by
"The company wants surface mail price, which is now 5 cents, to increase by 1 cent.", which is a bit confusing, but after further research, it may either refer to each additional 30g or to the post card rate.

The rates I just found on the Post Fiji web site still say 42c for first 30g, so I am quite confused.

Can anyone clarify?
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

The latest addition to my "Fiji used abroad collection":

Posted in Funchal, Madeira on 23rd September 2023, arrived today, 26th October 2023.

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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

They have unexpectedly already moved on to overprinting the 81c birds.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

overprints wrote: 08 Apr 2024 10:10 They have unexpectedly already moved on to overprinting the 81c birds.
It is not totally unexpected. The first example of an overprint on 81c stamps (the 1c xxx) was produced some years ago (as mentioned and pictured earlier on this thread).

That (and the contemporary 20c on 63c) came about as a result of a misunderstanding regarding stock levels of 44c stamps at the time.

The PO will have moved on to using 81c stamps either because they ran out of 63c stamps to surcharge or because whatever sheets of 63c stamps they had left had deteriorated to the extent that they were jamming the printing machine. Maybe the surcharging will finally come to an end when they reach and exhaust stocks of the 87c bird stamp.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

It happened sooner than expected.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

overprints wrote: 09 Apr 2024 11:11 It happened sooner than expected.
If it surprised you then you are quite correct, it was unexpected :D

It all depends on stock levels, and we don't know what they are.

Overall quantity wise there were very few surcharges on the 13c.

The base stamps were printed in Netherlands and have spent 30 years in a tropical climate.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

overprints wrote: 08 Apr 2024 10:10 They have unexpectedly already moved on to overprinting the 81c birds.
Values issued on the 81c are 1c, 2c, 3c, 4c, 5c, 6c, 20c, 23c, 40 c XX, 40c xxx & 50c XX

I believe there are still stocks remaining of 63c so not too sure (yet) why they've gone to the 81c.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

Hi Andy,

Long time no see!

Thanks very much for your input. Maybe we'll find out the reason for the change in due course!
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

lesbootman wrote: 11 Apr 2024 05:00 Hi Andy,

Long time no see!

Thanks very much for your input. Maybe we'll find out the reason for the change in due course!

Still around Les, trying to keep up with things.

If you are, or anyone else is, looking for images of the 81c overprints they're all on the PISC Forum.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

If you are, or anyone else is, looking for images of the 81c overprints they're all on the PISC Forum.
My computer can't open those files.
I believe there are still stocks remaining of 63c
Which is what I was guessing.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by mattbgreen »

overprints wrote: 13 Apr 2024 10:32
If you are, or anyone else is, looking for images of the 81c overprints they're all on the PISC Forum.
My computer can't open those files.
Same here Andy
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by dwyoung52 »

If you want to see images of the 81c overprints go to eBay and type in Fiji Land Birds into search. There is a stamp centre in Suva which is selling 10 of the overprints, missing 40c XX overprint. There are images of single stamps as well as sheets and various blocks etc.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

I am assuming you mean this seller. Here is the link to their listings.

https://www.ebay.com.au/str/heartsstampscenter?_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l2563
2024-04-15_091426.jpg
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

mattbgreen wrote: 14 Apr 2024 14:07
overprints wrote: 13 Apr 2024 10:32
If you are, or anyone else is, looking for images of the 81c overprints they're all on the PISC Forum.
My computer can't open those files.
Same here Andy
Same here too.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

Ubobo.R.O. wrote: 15 Apr 2024 10:13 I am assuming you mean this seller. Here is the link to their listings.

https://www.ebay.com.au/str/heartsstampscenter?_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l2563
Image

Yes, that's the one.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

We, PISC, are aware the recent images I've posted on our forum can't, or won't, open.

Hopefully we'll manage to fix the problem soon.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

Here are some other overprints....which we reckon are of "dubious parentage" being offered by the same seller.
Attachments
2c, missing overprints.jpg
50c, missing overprints.jpg
65c, dual font.jpg
s-l300.jpg
s-l1600.jpg
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

All 11 examples of the 81c overprint
Attachments
50c XX, a.jpg
40c xxx, a.jpg
40c XX, a.jpg
23c, a.jpg
20c, a.jpg
6c, a.jpg
5c, full sheet, a.jpg
4c, full sheet, a.jpg
3c, full sheet, a.jpg
2c, full sheet, a.jpg
1c, full sheet, a.jpg
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

Andy, thanks for the pictures. I wonder if Alevina is aware of anyone buying up sheets of the 63c or 81c stamps to produce the "dubious" overprints?

Is the 65c a genuine denomination or is that "fabricated" too?

Maybe someone at PISC has carried through on the sentiments of your "signature" Andy - and that's why the pictures won't show up. I remember that they used to when I added images, but I haven't added an image to a PISC forum post for some years now.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

lesbootman wrote: 16 Apr 2024 00:51 Andy, thanks for the pictures. I wonder if Alevina is aware of anyone buying up sheets of the 63c or 81c stamps to produce the "dubious" overprints?

Is the 65c a genuine denomination or is that "fabricated" too?

Maybe someone at PISC has carried through on the sentiments of your "signature" Andy - and that's why the pictures won't show up. I remember that they used to when I added images, but I haven't added an image to a PISC forum post for some years now.

Les,

I'd say the 65c is a definite "fabrication".....if you look closely you'll see the 6 & 5 appear to be different fonts.

As for the "bulk buying" bit...that's a question Bryan posed of me this morning & is already lying in the appropriate inbox as I write this.

As for the PISC forum images......this is a very recent "glitch" which, I'm sure, will get sorted soon......absolutely nothing to do with my signature :D :D :D :D
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by norvic »

BIGANDYN wrote: 16 Apr 2024 00:48 All 11 examples of the 81c overprint
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Please note

Images should be posted using the ‘in line’ button;

No more than 5/6 per post;

Each one should have an individual descriptive caption so that search engines can find them;

The message narrative should also describe what is in the post, in much more detail than “ All 11 examples of the 81c overprint” so that the board and Google search systems can find the discussion.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

norvic wrote: 16 Apr 2024 03:11
BIGANDYN wrote: 16 Apr 2024 00:48 All 11 examples of the 81c overprint
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Please note

Images should be posted using the ‘in line’ button;

No more than 5/6 per post;

Each one should have an individual descriptive caption so that search engines can find them;

The message narrative should also describe what is in the post, in much more detail than “ All 11 examples of the 81c overprint” so that the board and Google search systems can find the discussion.
All noted. A while since I last posted images......and I'll make it a long while 'til I do so again.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

Glen will be pleased with you Ian, correcting Andy like that. :lol:
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

lesbootman wrote: 16 Apr 2024 03:45 Glen will be pleased with you Ian, correcting Andy like that. :lol:

Better to get the correct info out there in the open than keep it to oneself.....whether the format be right, wrong or otherwise.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by norvic »

BIGANDYN wrote: 16 Apr 2024 03:58
lesbootman wrote: 16 Apr 2024 03:45 Glen will be pleased with you Ian, correcting Andy like that. :lol:

Better to get the correct info out there in the open than keep it to oneself.....whether the format be right, wrong or otherwise.
Absolutely agree, but without the text the ‘info’ isn’t there, it’s just a selection of pictures.

Now you may think that doesn’t matter, that only you, Les, and a couple of PISC people care.

But ever since Les started posting this wonderful selection of provisionals I have had them in my mind when looking at mixed lots and club books.

If the information is worth sharing it’s worth sharing.

I did write ‘please’, but whatever, themes the rules for posting pics.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

norvic wrote: 16 Apr 2024 04:44
BIGANDYN wrote: 16 Apr 2024 03:58
lesbootman wrote: 16 Apr 2024 03:45 Glen will be pleased with you Ian, correcting Andy like that. :lol:

Better to get the correct info out there in the open than keep it to oneself.....whether the format be right, wrong or otherwise.
Absolutely agree, but without the text the ‘info’ isn’t there, it’s just a selection of pictures.

Now you may think that doesn’t matter, that only you, Les, and a couple of PISC people care.

But ever since Les started posting this wonderful selection of provisionals I have had them in my mind when looking at mixed lots and club books.

If the information is worth sharing it’s worth sharing.

I did write ‘please’, but whatever, themes the rules for posting pics.
In which case I shall retire disgracefully from the conversation. If the posting ain't good enough for us mere mortals I shall refrain from posting at all.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

If Andy has been deterred from making further posts by officiousness then that is a major loss to this thread.

That is a real shame.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

lesbootman wrote: 16 Apr 2024 05:21 If Andy has been deterred from making further posts by officiousness then that is a major loss to this thread.

That is a real shame.
Les, rules are, obviously, more important than correct information.

That being the case.....as they say on "Dragons Den".....I'm out.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

I wonder if Alevina is aware of anyone buying up sheets of the 63c or 81c stamps to produce the "dubious" overprints?
It is my understanding the overprints on the 81c base are legit, but the 65c and the two with the overprint missing in every other column sure are suspicious.

But the seller does have access to unoverprinted sheets and has sold a "set" of 44c,63c,81c,87c,$1,$2,$3 & $5 sheets, total FV F$1375 or about US$600 that he sold for US$400 and the listing says he had 5 sets available. Either these are being "liberated" from a PO, or someone made a horrible investment. Note nothing below 44c, so it suggests they were only obtained relatively recently.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

overprints wrote: 16 Apr 2024 10:06
I wonder if Alevina is aware of anyone buying up sheets of the 63c or 81c stamps to produce the "dubious" overprints?
It is my understanding the overprints on the 81c base are legit, but the 65c and the two with the overprint missing in every other column sure are suspicious.

But the seller does have access to unoverprinted sheets and has sold a "set" of 44c,63c,81c,87c,$1,$2,$3 & $5 sheets, total FV F$1375 or about US$600 that he sold for US$400 and the listing says he had 5 sets available. Either these are being "liberated" from a PO, or someone made a horrible investment. Note nothing below 44c, so it suggests they were only obtained relatively recently.
So, the seller had means and opportunity. On the balance of probability it would appear more than likely that they have produced these overprints unbeknown to Post Fiji with totally fraudulent intentions.

They are looking to deceive and defraud stamp collectors though (rather than Post Fiji).
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

The 63c & 81c overprints are legit save for the 65c (displaced & on the 63c) as well as the blanks on the 44c.

That info has come, directly to me, from the lady (Alevina) herself.....& she's the one in charge of the overprinting.

A further comment to me from her, just last night, says "I really don't know what he's trying to prove" in relation to the seller who is, incidentally, well known within the Fiji Post Office.

Les' comment "They are looking to deceive and defraud stamp collectors though (rather than Post Fiji)" hits the nail very firmly, and squarely, on the head.

It's also worth mentioning that Post Fiji are aware of all the "rogues" but realise there's little, if anything, they can do to stop them being produced. This little saga will, undoubtedly, have an adverse effect on their reputation & an adverse effect, quite probably, on catalogue prices as, and when, editors work out just how easily these can be produced.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by norvic »

If there is a 65/63c surcharge then that would potentially be defrauding the Fiji post office by making a stamp available for more than their selling price. (Assuming anybody used one for postage.)

If the PO knows who it is I would expect that there would be some way of stopping them, if only by claiming infringement of IP if they are being sold on eBay. But maybe the local law does not allow for that.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

Given the confusion regarding valid and invalid stamps in this country, I have little doubt that you could get away with using 65c overprints in some parts of Fiji.

However, 2c is less than a British penny so I think you can discount any suggestion of postal fraud being the incentive to "privately produce" a 65c surcharge.

There are legitimate examples of the surcharged denomination being higher than the original denomination.

As regards your other points, things work a different way in Fiji so British norms don't necessarily apply.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

norvic wrote: 17 Apr 2024 05:23 If there is a 65/63c surcharge
Here's an example....of which there is no knowledge in the Fiji Post Office
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

.....and an example of a "missing" value
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

...and in a block of 4, but different position.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

You could easily be fooled into thinking they were genuine - if Alevina had not confirmed that they weren't!
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by overprints »

BigAndy - Have you asked Alevina about the weird things Shashi has been selling?
At best they are trials and one can not help but wonder whether they are real or not.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

overprints wrote: 19 Apr 2024 10:18 BigAndy - Have you asked Alevina about the weird things Shashi has been selling?
At best they are trials and one can not help but wonder whether they are real or not.
My guess would be that Shashi got those from Post Fiji. They were not issued and should have been destroyed. Thus they are printer's waste.

I would stress that that is just a guess.
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by BIGANDYN »

overprints wrote: 19 Apr 2024 10:18 BigAndy - Have you asked Alevina about the weird things Shashi has been selling?
At best they are trials and one can not help but wonder whether they are real or not.
As far as I can make out all Shashi's offerings on Ebay are purchased over the counter in Lautoka Post Office.

The overprinting does, from time to time, produce "anomalies" which she does her best to filter out.... I know that she had, at one point, a sizeable folder (marked "Not for Retail Sale"; the contents of which, I believe, were destroyed) of such "anomalies". However, some will, fortunately or unfortunately (depending on your viewpoint) slip through the net.

The 65c (above) can, categorically, be said to be outwith her knowledge (her actual words were "I've never seen that").....so should be treated as "suspicious".

Incidentally the reason for 6c stamps is they are a common makeup along with 38c stamps from stock to make the current basic inland rate of 44c.

The 23c comes about simply because "Postmasters ask for them" (something I clarified very recently)
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Re: FIJI Bird Overprint stamps from 2006 : A PICTORIAL LISTING

Post by lesbootman »

We queried the 6c and 23c denominations a few years ago.

The conclusion was that the forms used by PO's etc to requisition stamps (and the forms used for stamp sales to collectors) are pre-printed with the denominations of the 1995 definitive series.

Particularly in respect of the 23c, consensus reached then was that the denominations were produced simply because they were ordered just because they were on the order sheet.
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