Show and discuss 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers and usages!

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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by Temora22 »

AndrewG,

I wonder where the boxed "TOO LATE" marking was applied - Brisbane or perhaps Perth?

The sender may, as you have suggested, correctly paid a 1d late fee when posting the item in Brisbane.

The item may, however, have been delayed in its journey across Australia and arrived in Perth too late to meet the departure of the scheduled shipping service from there to Karachi.

Dick Roennfeldt is generally on the money with calculations of these Karachi-London airmail items. Perhaps he may be able to give an explanation.

Looks as though somebody was unsure of his or her spelling!

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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by cyber »

A cover from South Australia:

South Australia 1862 too late cover
South Australia 1862 too late cover

I remember buying this from Rod Perry.
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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

A Late Fee cancellation for 1915:

sb_january202220.jpg
A 2d grey Kangaroo paid the 1d per ½oz rate plus 1d for the Late Fee.

Note that "Late Fee" is in a box-type cancel.

The cover was postmarked Stock Exchange, VIC on 14 JA 15(?)

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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Here’s a nice advertising cover cancelled with the “LATE FEE, SYDNEY RLY. STN” date-stamp. The “LATE FEE” rubber stamp in violet ink was probably applied by the sender.

[
NSW1Late Fee Sydney Rly. Stn.2C(T).380326.6-P00.00.C.1591-02 1200 4MP.jpg

NSW1Late Fee Sydney Rly. Stn.2C(T).380326.6-P00.00.C.1591-01 2400.jpg

NSW1Late Fee Sydney Rly. Stn.2C(T).380326.6-P00.00.C.1591-52 2400 4MP.jpg
I found a reference to this cancel in Peck’s “Travelling Post Offices 2nd impression 1984” – excerpts shown below. It is an ‘N6’ as noted by Les Shepherd in his Philately from Australia article published December 1975.
Peck TPO 1984 p6.080 -01 Late Fee Sydney Rly Stn.jpg
Page 6.8 (part)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peck TPO 1984 p6.090 -01 Late Fee Sydney Rly Stn.jpg
Page 6.9 (part)
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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by stampmogul »

Late Fee_0001.jpg
I do not posess any Late Fee covers, however I now own 5 pages of Late Fee overprinted stamps that had previously been cut from covers.
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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by stampmogul »

Late Fee_0003.jpg
Late Fee_0002.jpg
King George V stamps of various denominations.
Late Fee_0002.jpg
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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by stampmogul »

Final 2 pages of KGV Too Late stamps
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Late Fee_0005.jpg
Late Fee_0004.jpg
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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

A curious "Late Fee":

sb_jun202221.jpg
A blue KGVI 3d and a KGVI 2d paid the 5d airmail rate to England. However the cancel reads "AIRMAIL LATE FEE SYDNEY". The cover was posted on 12 AU 38 (not sure about the time) and arrived in Leicester, England on 21 AU 38. With an added ½d KEVIII to pay the late fee?

Nice examples of late fee markings, stampmogul!

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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by agondocz »

If you can find it: "Late Fee Markings of Queensland" by Lester G. Shepard, Philately from Australia, pp 58 - 63, September 1976, is a good source for some of these markings from Queensland as well as for its general discussion of Australian late fees.

In addition there is: "More Queensland Late Fee Markings" by Lester G. Shepard, Philately from Australia, p. 5, September 1981.

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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

From a small lot of Late Fee covers and stamps:
sb_May20230121a.jpg
sb_May20230121b.jpg
sb_May20230121c.jpg
Apparently they were charged 1d extra if they posted their letters on board the train.

The 2d KGV underpaid the domestic rate plus the 1d Late Fee which was paid with a 1d postage due label. The cover was postmarked at 4:30 AM / 17 FEB / 1934 in Melbourne and was addressed locally to Melbourne.

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Re: Show us your Late Fee or Too Late covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

The postcard has a view of South Brisbane from Brisbane's City Hall Tower.
sb_May20230122a.jpg
A 2d red KGV paid the surface postcard rate to a foreign country. The postcard was mailed from Sydney to Los Angeles and was postmarked at 815A on indistinct (probably 30.SE.31?)
sb_May20230122b.jpg
The postmark reads "POSTED ON TRAIN / L.F.O. SYDNEY" Did the writer pay the Late Fee?
sb_May20230122c.jpg
Apparently the writer was not able to go to Sydney, but this postcard did.

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AndrewG
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

Two 4½d KGVI, a ½d Kangaroo, and a 3d Produce food paid the 3½d domestic rate plus 9d registration fee. The cover was posted on TPO West DN (Down) on 6 SE 53, then was postmarked on 7 SE 53 at Sydney, and was postmarked at Neutral Bay on 8 SE 53. Neutral Bay, New South Wales was the final destination.
sb_May20230128a.jpg
sb_May20230128b.jpg
The cover was posted aboard a train, thus the 2d LATE FEE / TO PAY. However, the cover was registered and according to the Shepard article should have had 4d Late Fee added. Perhaps.

The 2d / 4d Late Fee rates lasted from 1952 to 1959. See "Late Fee Markings of Queensland" by Lester G. Shepard, Philately from Australia, pp 58 - 63, September 1976.

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AndrewG
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

From Sydney, NSW to Singleton, NSW. The cover was postmarked in DE--the rest is indistinct--from SYDNEY RLY STA (?). The postmark also includes "LATE FEE".

The cover was franked with a blue 3d KGVI (Type 2 with some ink stripping, I think), which paid the 2d domestic surface rate plus 1d for the late fee. Despite the payment, the "TOO LATE / SYDNEY / LATE FEE OFFICE" marking seems to indicate that the cover was posted after the late fee opportunity closed. Maybe.

Note also a punctured "E" and a supposedly punctured "D" for Edwards Dunlop.
sb_May2023016a.jpg
sb_May2023016c.jpg
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

A "TOO - LATE"' postcard from Wagin, Western Australia to Semaphore, South Australia:
sb_july202301b.jpg
sb_july202301a.jpg
The postcard was franked with a 1d Western Australia swan and was mailed on 31 AUG 07 (?) but was posted after regular hours. The writer might not have wished to add 1d to pay for the late fee, hence the postal clerk added the Too Late marking to explain the delay in mailing the postcard. Maybe.

I like the view of the water rapids. I bought this card from a board member. Thanks!

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AndrewG
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,
sb_july202303.jpg
The cover was postmarked at 5PM on 16 AP 74 with "LATE FEE HAYMARKET / N.S.W.". Then the cover went by way of Sydney with a G.P.O SYDNEY / L.F. / 3 / NSW - AUST postmark dated 6-P 16 AP 74. There is also a purple "LATE FEE / CENTRAL RAILWAY" cachet. The 7c QEII pre-stamped envelope paid the domestic rate. A 7c Agate paid the late fee.

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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by danyeung »

10 Jul 1931 6d roo (smw) airmail cover to London - 2d letter rate, 3d airmail and 1d late fee.
10 Jul 1931 6d Roo late fee airmail cover to London
10 Jul 1931 6d Roo late fee airmail cover to London
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by Global Admin »

danyeung wrote: 09 Jul 2023 23:50
10 Jul 1931 6d roo (smw) airmail cover to London - 2d letter rate, 3d airmail and 1d late fee.


Nope. :lol: :lol:

6d was the total cost of a small Airmail letter to UK via Karachi from 1929 to 1934. Which then SOARED to 1/6d.

Someone just lazily used the 'Late Fee' cds. :!:

Still not a common cover with 6d S/Multi. 8-)
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

A Late Fee fail:
sb_july202305a.jpg
sb_july202305b.jpg
A scarlet 2½d KGVI paid the domestic rate and a red-brown 1d Queen Elizabeth paid the late fee.

The cover, which was mailed from the Railway Station in Sydney, was timed and dated at 8(?)P 3 MY 43, too late for the day's train to Brisbane. As indicated by the "TOO LATE / SYDNEY / LATE FEE OFFICE". This cachet let the receiver know why the letter may have been late.

Perhaps correct?

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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by danyeung »

Hi Glen, you are right.
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,
sb_july202309.jpg
Two 1d shield issues from New South Wales paid the 1d domestic rate and the 1d late fee rate. Perhaps. There is no postmark, but the cover was addressed to Sydney, Australia.

The two stamps, instead, were cancelled "POSTED IN LATE FEE BAG". It is a marking that I have not see before.

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AndrewG
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,
sb_july2023010a.jpg
sb_july2023010b.jpg
sb_july2023010c.jpg
A 1½d KGV paid the postal card rate from Adelaide, Australia to Emu Downs, South Australia. The card was likely mailed on 18 July 1935 according to the back of the postal card.

The "LATE FEE / T 1D" in a circle is new to me. It indicates that the late fee was not paid by the sender.

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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,
sb_july2023013.jpg
sb_july2023013a.jpg
A red 2d KGV paid the domestic rate, but not for the Late Fee. Rather than add a 1d postage due label, the Sydney post office detained the letter until it could be sent the next day.

The cover was postmarked "LATE FEE / 7 JNE / 6 - PM / 1933 / SYDNEY N.S.W." and was addressed to Melbourne. The slogan was "POST EARLY / EACH DAY".

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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Recently posted elsewhere but also fits here:

Image

"In Edinburgh in the 1840s it was possible to post a letter after normal closing of the mails on payment of an additional fee. The late fee was on two tiers- a penny extra on letters handed in between 6 and 7 p.m. and sixpence extra on letters handed in between 7 p.m. and 7.20 p.m. Payment of these fees was denoted by boxed stamps "PAID / 1d EXTRA" or "PAID / 6d / EXTRA"..."
Mackay Scottish Postmarks
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi OldDuffer1,

I have noticed that a wide variety of "Late Fee" and "Too Late" markings have been used on British and Indian covers especially. I didn't realize how early these markings were beginning to be used. Thank you!

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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by OldDuffer1 »

agondocz wrote: 23 Jul 2023 10:21 Hi OldDuffer1,

I have noticed that a wide variety of "Late Fee" and "Too Late" markings have been used on British and Indian covers especially. I didn't realize how early these markings were beginning to be used. Thank you!

Best wishes,
AndrewG
Yes- Here is an example of a "Too Late" marking- often known as a "Mae West" due to its resemblance, apparently, to hats worn by this character!

Image

Image
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by mozzerb »

OldDuffer1 wrote: 23 Jul 2023 21:25Yes- Here is an example of a "Too Late" marking- often known as a "Mae West" due to its resemblance, apparently, to hats worn by this character!
I don't think the perceived resemblance is to hats, more to Mae's famously ample chest. :lol:
Mae West.jpg
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by OldDuffer1 »

mozzerb wrote: 23 Jul 2023 21:39
OldDuffer1 wrote: 23 Jul 2023 21:25Yes- Here is an example of a "Too Late" marking- often known as a "Mae West" due to its resemblance, apparently, to hats worn by this character!
I don't think the perceived resemblance is to hats, more to Mae's famously ample chest. :lol:

Image
Admirable as they are-
5-mae-west--album.jpg
:lol:
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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

A "TOO LATE" cover from Hallett, South Australia to Mebourne, Victoria. The cover was postmarked OC 19 / 06 and missed the train. It was backstamped "EXPRESS RAILWAY / S.A." and date OC 20 / 06. The cover arrived in Melbourne on OC 22 / 4:30 AM / 1906.
sb_july2023026a.jpg
sb_july2023026b.jpg
sb_july2023026c.jpg
The cover was franked with two 1d Queen Victoria issues from South Australia. Note: Perhaps the "40668" and the "OCT 22 1906" were applied by a post office or railway clerk?

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Re: Show us your 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers!

Post by adw »

In the UK there was at one time an earlier cut off time for posting printed papers than letters. The minimum printed paper rate was ½d until 1940 and an extra ½d late fee had to be paid for printed papers posted late in the day, otherwise they would be held over to the next day.

If a printed paper item was posted unpaid it wasn't clear if it was urgent or not, so GPO policy was to assume it was urgent and charge double postage and double late fee to the recipient, making 2d due in total.

Sheffield had a large handstamp for this purpose:
2023-08-13_10-18-16.jpg
"Unpaid 2d to pay / Posted too late for ½d rate"
2023-08-13_10-28-40.jpg
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Re: Show and discuss 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers and usages!

Post by Global Admin »

adw wrote: 13 Aug 2023 20:25
If a printed paper item was posted unpaid it wasn't clear if it was urgent or not, so GPO policy was to assume it was urgent and charge double postage and double late fee to the recipient, making 2d due in total.

Cheeky beggars! What a presumption.
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Re: Show and discuss 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers and usages!

Post by Erinmania »

A postcard showing a "Too Late/Ship Sailed " handstamp, used when mail arrived too late to catch the ship before it sailed at Queenstown Ireland ( now Cobh).
1904 Too Late Ship Sailed handstamp used at Queenstown Ireland.
1904 Too Late Ship Sailed handstamp used at Queenstown Ireland.
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Re: Show and discuss 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers and usages!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,
Two 1d Kangaroos paid the 1d surface rate to Canada from Australia plus 1d for the late fee
sb_March202409.jpg
sb_March202409a.jpg
The cover was postmarked in Melbourne on 28 JE 13 at 415P. Seems a bit early for a late fee?

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Re: Show and discuss 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers and usages!

Post by Global Admin »

Listed this 1855 gem up on my Rarity Page this week and had EIGHT orders for it in 3 days. Big margin copies are very scarce. Anyway, added here for the record, as the background to these is very interesting - each unit on the sheet being hand carved in Boxwood! The world's ONLY postage stamp ever inscribed 'TOO LATE'

Image

Victoria 1855 6d Lilac and Green 'Too Late' stamp superb used 4 massive margins - $A300 - These were literally printed from designs individually carved multiple times into “the best hardened Turkey boxwood” (his actual words, on the official PO quote) by Samuel Calvert. Victoria was the first country anywhere, to issue specific “Registered” and “Too Late” stamps - indeed it was the only country anywhere, to ever issue the latter. This 6d was the PO fee to lodge mail for 15 minutes AFTER the official PO closing time, so it could be rushed to the ship’s dock, or train station etc.

These two stamps were also both 'Woodblocks', and also literally hand-engraved on boxwood, and both were bi-coloured, unusual for anywhere globally at that time, in 1855. An Auction of these issues got blockbuster prices - the 'Specimen' of this stamp, with a light crease, was invoiced for about $A6,000 etc. A ton more info on them here - www.tinyurl.com/Calverts - This used example has neat '1' barred cancel, is clean and fresh and flat, with no thins or tears or usual toning - a miracle for these after 169 years, and AMAZING margins - most are cut very close, as readers will know. A gem looking example. SG #33, Cat £250=$A500 for average used. Will sell FAST at just $US195 at $A300 - Stock 713EJ
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Re: Show and discuss 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers and usages!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

An airmail fail?
sb_March202423.jpg
A red 2½d KGVI and a 6d Kookaburra should have paid the 2½d surface rate for up to 1oz plus the 6d for the ½d to 1 oz airmail rate from Sydney to Tamworth, Australia. Alas the cover was postmarked at 6:00pm. Perhaps it missed the last flight of the day to Tamworth?

In any case a Late Fee notice was added and the air mail indicium was crossed out.

Note also the G / NSW punctures.

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Re: Show and discuss 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers and usages!

Post by [email protected] »

Thanks for a very interesting thread.


The "TOO LATE" stamp was adopted by the Post Office as a counter measure against the complaints from the general public of delayed delivery. The collection times of the mails were advertised, and if letters were received after the stated time, and the sender did not intend to pay the additional 'Late Fee' charge, the letters received the 'TOO LATE' stamp.

These stamps varied from town to town and are an interesting study. They were framed, unframed, round, oblong, scrolls etc, and they were applied in different inks,. For anyone interested in the various TOO LATE markings used in Great Britain, Scotland and Ireland we have explanations and examples on our website at
http://www.earsathome.com/webgil/toolate.html. A lot of the letters have interesting contents too, as an example the letter posted from Hull

Having just got updated on the thread I realise some of these are already shown but thought I would post it anyway

Regards

Eunice and Ron
tlirish2.jpg
tlscot8.jpg
Attached a couple of examples
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Re: Show and discuss 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers and usages!

Post by agondocz »

Hello Eunice and Ron,

Thank you for the link to your interesting study!

Best wishes,
AndrewG
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Re: Show and discuss 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers and usages!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

A large "LATE FEE" cachet:
sb_2024May080.jpg
sb_2024May08b.jpg
The cover was mailed from Melbourne to Sydney and was postmarked 1 MY 40. I am not sure about the time.

The cover was franked with a 5d Merino Sheep which paid the 2d postage and the 3d registration fee. A red 2d KGVI paid the 2d late fee for registered letters.

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Re: Show and discuss 'Late Fee' or 'Too Late' rate covers and usages!

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

For a time, the condition of the front of this cover kept me from buying it:
sb_2024May18.jpg
But it is the first "Late Fee" cancel that I have seen with a slogan cancel. In this case: "South Australia / Centenary / Celebrations / 1936".

The cover was postmarked 6 30pm / 9 JLY / 1936 / Sydney, N.S.W. The cover is franked with a 3d "Opening of Submarine Telephone Link to Tasmania". The 3d paid the 2d surface rate plus the 1d Late Fee.

Best wishes,
AndrewG
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