Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" markings

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" marking

Post by TKL »

Vasia - a few covers with 'ПЛАТА СТЯГНЕНА' from Sumy with different text to the one you have shown.

If you carefully examine the cachet on your cover, the two lines of lettering appear to be centred. A vast majority of cachets used throughout the regions all shown the lettering centred on newly made cachets, except for ones which had been modified from old Soviet cachets, by cutting away portions of lettering etc

You may find that your cachet reads - 'ПЛАТА СТЯГНЕНА' ?

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tkl - Ukraine Provisional Issues 1992/95 - 49,450 provisional covers & still rising......

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" markings

Post by vasia »

tkl, thank you for showing your Sumy covers! My lack of knowledge of the Russian language made me assume that the first word in the handstamp was "ДОПЛАТА". Based on the info provided and the placement of the 2 words, it appears to be 'ПЛАТА СТЯГНЕНА'. Just out of curiosity, is there a real difference in meaning between the words "ДОПЛАТА" and "ПЛАТА"?

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" markings

Post by TKL »

vasia wrote: Just out of curiosity, is there a real difference in meaning between the words "ДОПЛАТА" and "ПЛАТА"?
I am sorry but the Russian/Ukrainian cyrillic alphabet is not my strong point. I am sure there are slight differences in the translation of the words 'ДОПЛАТА' and 'ПЛАТА'?

Maybe one of the list contributors could help out?
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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" markings

Post by maptrekker »

The Russian prefix ДО- can sometime mean ADDITIONAL

ПЛАТА = payment
ДОПЛАТА = additional payment

The postage due stamps of Russia were at first regular stamps overprinted "ДОПЛАТА" and later were stamps inscribed "ДОПЛАТА."

I think "СТЯГНЕНА" is a strictly a Ukrainian word and not Russian.

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" markings

Post by TKL »

maptrekker, thanks for the translations
tkl - Ukraine Provisional Issues 1992/95 - 49,450 provisional covers & still rising......

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" marking

Post by vasia »

Two more covers from miscellaneous oblasts:

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40. Registered letter from Rakov, Kamin'-Kashyrs'kyi rayon in Volhynia oblast, posted on 12/7/1993 to Nikolaev (17/7). A postage-due handstamp of Rakov, hand-converted by the addition of a "УПЛ" and a value "8", is used to supplement the 10 krb Narbut stamp and make up the correct 18 krb registered letter rate. Curiously the 1 krb Narbut PSE appears to have been disregarded!

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41. Letter from Zaporizhya, posted on 13/8/1992 to St Petersburg (19/8). A solo 20k Ukrainian stamp is used to frank the cover. The postage-due handstamp of Zaporizhya-24 appears to be used to indicate payment of the remaining postal tariff (letter rate to CIS at this time is 1 krb). Curiously, the handstamp is not converted as other similar handstamps have been, nor is there any inscription of the supplementary payment.

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" markings

Post by YuriyV »

maptrekker wrote:The Russian prefix ДО- can sometime mean ADDITIONAL

ПЛАТА = payment
ДОПЛАТА = additional payment

The postage due stamps of Russia were at first regular stamps overprinted "ДОПЛАТА" and later were stamps inscribed "ДОПЛАТА."

I think "СТЯГНЕНА" is a strictly a Ukrainian word and not Russian.
Above explanation is correct and complete. I'd add just about "СТЯГНЕНА"
As mentioned above, this is a strictly Ukrainian word. I'd translate it as
"СТЯГНЕНА"(UKR)->"ВЗЫСКАНА"(RUS)->"CHARGED"(ENG)
So, I'd suggest to translate the "ДОПЛАТА СТЯГНЕНА" markings in word-to-word as "ADDITIONAL PAYMENT CHARGED".
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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" marking

Post by YuriyV »

vasia wrote: Image

41. Letter from Zaporizhya, posted on 13/8/1992 to St Petersburg (19/8).
Can you recognize who is the sender? :-)
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=1123680#p1123680" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" markings

Post by maptrekker »

A postage-due handstamp of Rakov, hand-converted by the addition of a "УПЛ" and a value "8", is used to supplement the 10 krb Narbut stamp and make up the correct 18 krb registered letter rate. Curiously the 1 krb Narbut PSE appears to have been disregarded!
I think the 1 krb PSE with the 8 krb Doplatit handstamp was created and sold over the counter for the 9 krb domestic letter rate. The user added the 10 krb stamp to pay for registration -- slightly overpaying by 1 krb.

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" marking

Post by vasia »

Yuriy - sender of the letter from Zaporizhya: the famous / infamous Vitaliy Hizhnyak? Do you think he underfranked the cover on purpose to obtain the postage-due mark?

maptrekker - your observation about the 1krb PSE (cover from Rakov) makes perfect sense. I think it is interesting that it has been totally disregarded in the total charge, in the sense that it has not been obliterated by the Rakov canceller.

Below are 2 covers with "paid" markings from Rovenskaya oblast:

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42. Registered letter from Dubno, posted on 20/6/1993 to Rovno (23/6). The "ОПЛAЧЕНО" rectangular handstamp with the handwritten "9 00" krb charge is used to supplement a previous 9 krb revaluation of the Soviet PSE to make up the correct registered letter rate of 18 krb.

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43. (Soviet) postal card from Rovno, posted sometime during January 1994 to Lvov (17/1) through Kiev (15/1). A similar-type "ОПЛAЧЕНО" rectangular handstamp (but longer than the Dubno one and in violet) is used. Does the 18 krb hand-inscribed charge correspond to the correct postal tariff for cards?

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" markings

Post by YuriyV »

vasia wrote:Yuriy - sender of the letter from Zaporizhya: the famous / infamous Vitaliy Hizhnyak?
True.
vasia wrote:Do you think he underfranked the cover on purpose to obtain the postage-due mark?
I don't know. I believe he had a lot of fun experimenting with cover sending. :-)
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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" markings

Post by vasia »

Thank you, Yuriy. :D
By the way, have you received my e-mail today about the Volhynia covers I am interested in?

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" markings

Post by maptrekker »

Does the 18 krb hand-inscribed charge correspond to the correct postal tariff for cards?
As far as domestic mail is concerned, it looks like registered postcards and letters were always charged the same rate.

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" marking

Post by vasia »

Thanks to Yuriy I have added to my collection a few new varieties of "paid" markings from Nikolaev oblast (see covers #9-16 in this thread for other Nikolaev "paid" markings).

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44. Registered letter from Bashtanka (center of Bashtans'kyi rayon), posted on 25/5/1993 to Berezhany, Ternopol (28/5). A postage-due postmark with a filled-in "15" (krb) supplements 3 strikes of a "ПОШТА 3 КРБ" violet handstamp (3x3=9 krb) to make up the correct 24 krb rate for registered BUSINESS mail.

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45. Letter from Bratskoe (center of Brats'kyi rayon), posted on 24/6/1994 to Chernigov (28/6). A violet "ЦIНА 100 КРБ" handstamp covers the correct domestic letter rate of the period.

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46. Letter from Zelenyy Yar, Mykolaïvs'kyi rayon, posted on 18/12/1993 to Slavyatin, Ternopol (20/12). The envelope had been originally overprinted with a rectangular "ЦЕНА" handstamp with a handwritten "27" for the domestic letter rate of Tariff 5. By the time of posting of this letter the rate had gone up to 100 Krb (Tariff 6), so a second strike of this handstamp is overlaid on the first with a handwritten "100".

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" marking

Post by norvic »

vasia wrote:Image

46. Letter from Zelenyy Yar, Mykolaïvs'kyi rayon, posted on 18/12/1993 to Slavyatin, Ternopol (20/12). The envelope had been originally overprinted with a rectangular "ЦЕНА" handstamp with a handwritten "27" for the domestic letter rate of Tariff 5. By the time of posting of this letter the rate had gone up to 100 Krb (Tariff 6), so a second strike of this handstamp is overlaid on the first with a handwritten "100".
I can't see the dates, but if I had been looking at that I would have assumed that the ЦЕНА 100 Копеек was first, changing the 7 kop to 100 kop (1 rouble), with the 27 being last, for 27 krb. But the dates would determine the rate, of course. And I have also assumed that the Копеек follows the ЦЕНА and is part of the 100 mark, as there doesn't appear to be any Копеек on the 27 box.
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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" marking

Post by vasia »

A close-up of the handstamp provides the answer:

Image

The handstamp consists of a "ЦЕНА" inscription at upper left and a "копеек" below it at center (obviously of Soviet origin). It is the same handstamp - the "копеек" is present on both strikes (rather faint on the second).

The frame of the "100" handstamp is clearly above the frame of the "27" hanstamp, as it would be logical given the date of posting: 18/12/1993.

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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" marking

Post by norvic »

vasia wrote:A close-up of the handstamp provides the answer:

Image

The handstamp consists of a "ЦЕНА" inscription at upper left and a "копеек" below it at center (obviously of Soviet origin). It is the same handstamp - the "копеек" is present on both strikes (rather faint on the second).

The frame of the "100" handstamp is clearly above the frame of the "27" hanstamp, as it would be logical given the date of posting: 18/12/1993.
Yes, I can see the копеек on the lower handstamp now. You have to look closely at these, don't you :) ?
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Re: Ukraine post-1991 provisional "paid" and "p-due" marking

Post by vasia »

Two more covers with "paid" markings from Nikolaev oblast:

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47. Cover from Novokrasnoe, Arbuzinskiy rayon, posted on 12/4/1993 to Kiev (13/4). A "ПОШТА УКРAΪНА Оплачено по тарифу" handstamp with a handwritten "3" is used to indicate payment of the current postal rate of 3 Krb.

I have shown 2 other covers from Arbuzinskiy rayon (from Arbuzynka and Blagodatnoe) using very similar, if not identical, handstamps during 1993 (covers #9 + 10). Amid the chaos, a rayon with some order!

Image

48. Cover from Pervomaisk, posted on 15/7/1993 to a location in Ternopol oblast. An unframed Soviet-era "ЦЕНА РУБ КОП" handstamp with a handwritten "8" is used to supplement the 1 krb Narbut Ukrainian PSE for the correct 9 krb domestic letter rate.

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