1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoughts?

A venue to discuss unusual and interesting items being offered. Report and discuss fakes, forgeries, scammers and con-men. Also fee discussion, and low listing fee promos etc. Discuss feedback. Great items for sale. New policies ..... whatever YOU want!

Moderator: Volunteer Moderator Team

User avatar
MJ's pet
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 2663
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 11:03
Location: Australia

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoug

Post by MJ's pet »

Good Lord. The Greek Forger's Fffaaakkkee 1d Roo Double Large OS sold for $73

Image
All bidders private, of course. 8) 8)

Bidders:5 Bids:8 Time Ended:4 Apr 2019 at 20:03:11 AEDST Duration:5 days

Bidder Bid amount Bid time
private listing - bidders' identities protected AU $73.00 4 Apr 2019 at 20:03:05 AEDST
private listing - bidders' identities protected AU $72.00 4 Apr 2019 at 10:37:48 AEDST
private listing - bidders' identities protected AU $58.00 4 Apr 2019 at 10:37:00 AEDST
private listing - bidders' identities protected AU $51.50 2 Apr 2019 at 20:08:51 AEDST
private listing - bidders' identities protected AU $33.00 1 Apr 2019 at 22:53:58 AEDST
private listing - bidders' identities protected AU $32.15 2 Apr 2019 at 20:07:57 AEDST
private listing - bidders' identities protected AU $23.05 2 Apr 2019 at 19:59:59 AEDST
private listing - bidders' identities protected AU $2.00 31 Mar 2019 at 7:04:22 AEDST
Starting price AU $1.99 30 Mar 2019 at 20:03:11 AEDST

User avatar
MJ's pet
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 2663
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 11:03
Location: Australia

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoug

Post by MJ's pet »

Where to put this? Please move to another thread if more appropriate there.

MORE FAKES FROM THE GREEK FORGER


Ebay Item #: 303142640300
Seller: antiquesunlimited111_1
Start Date: 3 May 2019
End Date: 8 May 2019 20:49:41 AEST
Description: 6d Blue 3rd wmk Roo with double OS error used
Real Description: Fake Double OS perfin, recently made.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6d-Blue-3rd-wmk-Roo-with-double-OS-error-used/303142640300
Image

User avatar
watcher101
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Green Star Less Than 10 Posts Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 22 Oct 2019 02:27
Location: Rockdale, Australia

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoug

Post by watcher101 »

Interesting thread....

It has been over 6 months since the last post.

This has been playing out like a repetitive soap opera.


So:

Has the original thread subject definitely been proven fake/genuine beyond reasonable doubt by the perfin society?

Why has Chris Ceremuga gone quiet all of a sudden and not addressed allegations directed towards him and his alleged bias in issuing alleged self-serving certificates?

Why is the greek forger still operating on ebay despite all the reports that I assume have been flooding into ebay by members of this board?

Do we know the results of any efforts (or non-efforts), that a certain poster is urging the APF and APTA to implement against him, and if so how successful were they?

Are the above scenarios going to be repeated in the future episodes and when will the movie be made?

And of course, how many members of this board belong to the Flat Earth Society?
You can run, but you can't hide!!!!
I AM WATCHING

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 57878
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoug

Post by Global Administrator »

Philatelics (Australia) wrote:
13 Jul 2018 01:45
We had this come in for a future auction today, was part of a collection of a deceased estate that had been held for some time ....and not added to in any significant way for some time before the owner passed away.

Image

By the centering and the position of the OS it would likely appear to be from the same strip as the first stamp on this post, but not the adjoining pair that had been removed. The second strike of the OS like the first stamp in the post is on a very slight angle so appears slightly lower than the first example.

I'm thinking this pair adds a little weight to Chris Ceremuga being correct in issuing a certificate stating the first stamp in this post is genuine, so will open this post up for further discussion of the various merits.

Here is the reverse side....

Image

Regards

Steve
Have no idea if the pair above sold, but as another reference point this (still uncatalogued by ACSC) single sold today at Phoenix O'Rourke Kangaroos for $A1,865 invoice, on $A1,000 Estimate - Lot 24

1913 1d Kangaroo stamp DOUBLE perfin of large OS mint
1913 1d Kangaroo stamp DOUBLE perfin of large OS mint
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

User avatar
gregbear61
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Posts: 971
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 18:54
Location: Surrey, UK (expat Aussie)

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoughts?

Post by gregbear61 »

It's interesting to compare the pair with the single.

Given the differing positions of the double OS on the single - the top OS is slightly higher on the single and the bottom OS lower, they are perhaps from the same sheet, but not the same row.

The off-centering of the stamp is similar on both.
Attachments
1d os.JPG

User avatar
gregbear61
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Posts: 971
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 18:54
Location: Surrey, UK (expat Aussie)

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoughts?

Post by gregbear61 »

Here is the example with the genuine Ceremuga certificate at left that started this thread off, compared to the Phoenix example at right.

os old new.JPG

A pretty good match. Not "100% perfect" given the slight slippage in the additional puncture that was shown earlier in the thread, but very convincing.

User avatar
wilbaer
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
Posts: 449
Joined: 06 Jul 2009 14:28
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoughts?

Post by wilbaer »

Looks like a different 'O' and 'S' to me if you look closely. Small nuances, but the relation of some of the holes on the two stamps do not match from these scans. Not sure that this is the same OS die....

User avatar
camelspotter
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 320
Joined: 10 Feb 2014 23:01
Location: Romania

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoughts?

Post by camelspotter »

wilbaer wrote:
12 Jun 2020 23:22
Looks like a different 'O' and 'S' to me if you look closely. Small nuances, but the relation of some of the holes on the two stamps do not match from these scans. Not sure that this is the same OS die....
You can't compare the images, one seems to be a scan, the other a photo.
The image of the stamp on the right is (horizontally) larger than the one one the left, no wonder the 'holes' don't match.

User avatar
gregbear61
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Posts: 971
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 18:54
Location: Surrey, UK (expat Aussie)

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoughts?

Post by gregbear61 »

True, the right stamp image above came up wider when resizing to align the frames.

This is a small improvement, one or other of the original images used could be just slightly out proportion, and I can't overlay images with my low-tech to align the corners of the frames, which would be ideal to get exact measures.

2nd OS.JPG

Still, if I owned either I'd be delighted to see the other, given the closely matching centring and puncture placement...

User avatar
Allanswood
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 15700
Joined: 02 Dec 2009 11:59
Location: Goulburn NSW Australia

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoughts?

Post by Allanswood »

I've combined the 4 images now being shown on this thread and made them correct size in relation to each other.

It raises some questions.
Seems obvious that it is now 2 rows of stamps that may have been double perfed.
The pair are a much cleaner punch than the 2 singles.

Or 2 of these are indeed faked.

Finding an image of the previously mentioned strip of 3 would help.
Plating the stamps would also help.
Attachments
Australia 1d Red Kangaroo and Map Stamps with Double Large OS Perfs
Australia 1d Red Kangaroo and Map Stamps with Double Large OS Perfs
Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"

User avatar
gregbear61
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Posts: 971
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 18:54
Location: Surrey, UK (expat Aussie)

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoughts?

Post by gregbear61 »

Interestingly stamp B above appears to show the effect of another double-OS stamp to its right.

If you look at the area of B marked yellow below - the RHS perforations looked pulled at first glance, but appear to be in the location and pattern of the left hand far edge of the O of doubled lower OS puncture.

1d edge.JPG

The join between C&D in the above post appears to have a similar pattern around that area.

pair marked.png

Both stamps A and D appear to have normal right hand side perforations, suggesting they did not have a double OS neighbour to their right.

User avatar
The Pom
I was online for Post Number 4 MILLION!
I was online for Post Number 4 MILLION!
Posts: 11268
Joined: 02 May 2007 08:08
Location: Great Britain

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoughts?

Post by The Pom »

Stamp D shows clear signs on 2 perfs at right (circled). Look at the smooth curved indentations in the perf tips.

I also suspect that if you unfolded the arrowed perf tip, it would show something.
pair marked.png
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 57878
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoughts?

Post by Global Administrator »

.
It seems the collective wisdom of the Perfin Society was that these were all fake.

But as far as I know they have never physically examined any of them?

They all seem to have got the sulks, and have taken their bat and ball and gone home, as some here were critical of their rather curious ''methodology''!

Glen
Tounga wrote:
25 Oct 2017 23:02
Image

Image

Seller Status International store lot number 172944138911 - $A2,499.00

This has a certificate but has been identified and analysed by the PCNZA forgery committee.

Both punctures have been measured against the analytical data base and both do not match any known large OS die types.

In fact the bottom left pattern is vastly different from the central strike
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

User avatar
wilbaer
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
PLATINUM Star Serious Stamp Poster
Posts: 449
Joined: 06 Jul 2009 14:28
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoug

Post by wilbaer »

Global Administrator wrote:
12 Jun 2020 16:16
Philatelics (Australia) wrote:
13 Jul 2018 01:45
We had this come in for a future auction today, was part of a collection of a deceased estate that had been held for some time ....and not added to in any significant way for some time before the owner passed away.

Image


By the centering and the position of the OS it would likely appear to be from the same strip as the first stamp on this post, but not the adjoining pair that had been removed. The second strike of the OS like the first stamp in the post is on a very slight angle so appears slightly lower than the first example.

I'm thinking this pair adds a little weight to Chris Ceremuga being correct in issuing a certificate stating the first stamp in this post is genuine, so will open this post up for further discussion of the various merits.

Here is the reverse side....

Image

Regards

Steve

Have no idea if the pair above sold, but as another reference point this (still uncatalogued by ACSC) single sold today at Phoenix O'Rourke Kangaroos for $A1,865 invoice, on $A1,000 Estimate - Lot 24

Image
Hmm - now sure how this is stacking up. The original certificate on P1 of this thread was a single, which according to Chris, was "an extremely rare error, with only a strip of 3 known to me(from which this stamp originates) so probably only one row of 12 existed".

Then there was a pair pictured above again by Glen where the second OS was punched way higher than the first and now we have a 4th one, the newest single, from the Phoenix auction, where the second OS is lower again.

Wouldn't it be the case that if we have one device with 12 OS dies in a line, then all the second OS strikes should be uniformally in the same place/height on the stamps? Or am I missing something about the nature of this device..

And this Phoenix one has a Ceremuga certificate also from 2011 - it would be interesting to see this to see how it is worded and what the conclusions on this certificate were.....

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 57878
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: 1d Kangaroo forged(?) double perf on eBay. Member thoug

Post by Global Administrator »

wilbaer wrote:
16 Jun 2020 22:57

Wouldn't it be the case that if we have one device with 12 OS dies in a line, then all the second OS strikes should be uniformally in the same place/height on the stamps? Or am I missing something about the nature of this device.
Has it not been established above that the perfins were not exactly horizontal, i.e. they moved slightly out of square along the row?
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Post Reply

Return to “All Online Stamp Auction related discussion and overview”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests