GB SG 16, 1d Imperf Plate 11, Never issued. Why is it SG listed?

[luke_coolhand]

I know its their album, and they can do whatever they want with it but why include an unissued stamp?

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[bazza4338]

Images are too small.

Is this the stamp?

[luke_coolhand]

Yes, lovely example. I always thought that Stanley Gibbons had a rule that a stamp needed to be available over the post office counter before they would include it in their albums. This is similar to printers waste or never used colour trials.

[HalfpennyYellow]

I think this is just one of many inconsistencies found in SG catalogues (and apparently their albums too).

They list some unissued stamps along with the regular listings. Examples include the UK 1910 2d Tyrian plum (SG 266a) and some early stamps from some colonies such as Barbados SG 5a/b and Mauritius SG 30/31.

On the other hand there are well-known unissued stamps which exist in collectors' hands such as the Malayan Union 1946 Victory 8c and the New Zealand 1949 Royal Visit 3d which are mentioned but are not given full listings with catalogue numbers.

[norvic]

Perhaps it depended on whether they had any to sell at the time. Their catalogue is their price list?

[Global Admin]

I think this is just one of many inconsistencies found in SG catalogues (and apparently their albums too).

They list some unissued stamps along with the regular listings. Examples include the UK 1910 2d Tyrian plum (SG 266a) and some early stamps from some colonies such as Barbados SG 5a/b and Mauritius SG 30/31.

On the other hand there are well-known unissued stamps which exist in collectors' hands such as the Malayan Union 1946 Victory 8c and the New Zealand 1949 Royal Visit 3d which are mentioned but are not given full listings with catalogue numbers.

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Agree - a lot of SG inconsistencies that have crept in.

The New Zealand 1906 1d CLARET colour is a totally different colour to the issued 1d Vermilion.

None were never sold by the PO at any time. HOWEVER - SG 371a cat is £10,000 mint, and £20,000 used.

PO printed them in claret, changed their mind as that colour was too dark, and reprinted in Vermilion. And destroyed the Clarets, except for Archive copies. One sheet was sent to the Exhibition organisers to display there.

The facts are that the head of the Exhibition Committee ''sold'' them to himself (maybe, and maybe not even the 1d face was paid) that seems clear, and used several on cover and disposed of the mint copies for big bucks. Coff.

So much for "a show visitor unwittingly using some on cover." They really should NEVER have made it into any catalogue anywhere, as an issued stamp, and were certainly NEVER sold at any Post Office anywhere, at any time.

An envelope containing three Penny Clarets sold at auction in 1993 for $44,000. The envelope was self-addressed to a ‘Mr E. Righton’ in 1907. Mr Righton was the organising secretary of the Exhibition, and the envelope bears the postmark 20 April, the day the Exhibition Post Office closed.

[pertinax]

"Why is it SG listed?"

To create demand?


Scott

[Global Admin]

Pertinax kindly ID'd this superb flat original gum Plate 12, 1d red imperf I asked about, and thanks for about his expert input.

I'd have been nearly happy to write '11' on the back in 6B pencil.

Interestingly had numerous folks asking about it, and it was not especially cheap, but being the cost of a hinged 5/- Bridge, it probably was a far wiser long term buy!

Glen

GB original gum Plate 12, 1d red imperf

[gavin-h]

Yes, lovely example. I always thought that Stanley Gibbons had a rule that a stamp needed to be available over the post office counter before they would include it in their albums. This is similar to printers waste or never used colour trials.

Like many other things, "it depends".

My GB Windsor albums include spaces for the "Abnormals".

A few GB Queen Victoria stamps were printed from plates which were never put to regular use. These were produced by De La Rue (1862-80) for submission to the Board of Inland Revenue, normally the first six sheets printed from each plate.

One sheet was normally kept as an Imprimatur and the remaining sheets were either destroyed circulated in the usual manner.

Usually these stamps were exactly the same as all the others produced from the same plate, but sometimes plates were altered or scrapped. Or colour changes were made. In those cases, the five sheets of stamps were "abnormal". Around 12 different stamps exist, and there are spaces for them in the album although most collectors will never see them.

A maximum of 1200 stamps could exist (5 sheets x 240 per sheet) if all survived which is virtually impossible. Typical prices for used copies are in the thousands of Pounds and mint copies are rarer still.

Yes, they were available "over the counter", but likely over very few counters, so should they be given album status by Gibbons' own rules? The logical, sensible or even "fair" answer is, of course overridden by considerations of profit and status (depending on whether you are, respectively, the seller or buyer). Of course it's still possible to get a "lucky find" but increasingly unlikely ~150 years on.

[kenlondon]

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Does a sale by a country's Philatelic Bureau genuinely count as an "over the counter sale"?

[Global Admin]

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Does a sale by a country's Philatelic Bureau genuinely count as an "over the counter sale"?

SG generally have an extra stipulation that something needs to have been sold at FACE VALUE from a post office, before they will list it.

So a set sold widely sold for face might see the Bureaus ALSO issue a silver or gold coated one, or an deliberate imperf version, or a numbered mini sheet etc, etc, and sell them all at high premiums ... SG have never bothered with listing those. Thank goodness!

One recent example to answer your point are these - that SG are to list and number - that were only sold via the Bureau ... but all were sold at face value -

New Zealand 2006 Kapa Haka Maori Dancers Rare “Unissued” set of 5: Sold, advertised and illustrated in the NZ Philatelic Bulletin, and mailed and charged to some standing order clients by NZ Post. But hastily withdrawn in panic at Eleventh Hour, as some Maori activists did not like the design images!

The Post Office had only started mailing them out, when the edict to stop the issue was made. NZ is like a large country town, and everyone from the Prime Minister down got involved in discussing if the designs were ''suitable'' - despite them all being fully approved in advance by the Maori Council etc over there!

Only 39 mint sets of 5 were mailed to many who ordered them, and a few FDC, and 11 stamp booklets of 10, and 100 x 45c coil stamps were charged and sent to collectors, and they are the rarest post-war issues for 100 years from NZ. (See detailed note on these in SG “New Zealand” cat after SG #2285.)

NZ Post contacted all of these New Issue clients after the event saying in essence - ''the stamps really were not on general issue, and would you mind returning them to us please. We will refund your credit card, and mail you a FREE 2006 Annual Album as an apology for this mix up.''

Some dopes did just that!!! The savvy ones who ignored the letter, had rare sets in their legal possession.

I sell them for $A8,750 a set of 5, and $A1,500 for a coil, or booklet 45c single. Not a bad return for the New Issue clients who bought them at face! Even at today's prices they clearly have good upside potential when SG prices them.

Crusty old Rotorua New Zealand dealer Donald Ion, who claimed to be Maori but I do not think he remotely was, was p!ssed off he did not get any at face value - and hit the media there whining about it at the time -

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/article.c ... d=10942185

Ion placed a Maori cure on me for selling these. Don passed in 2015, and last time I checked the curse has not worked on me!

They are a FAR more legitimate PO issue than the stolen 1906 1d Clarets shown above -
of which none were never sold by the PO at any time. HOWEVER - SG 371a cat is £10,000 mint, and £20,000 used EACH.

Glen

New Zealand 2006 Kapa Haka Maori Dancers Rare “Unissued” set of 5:

.

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New Zealand 2006 Kapa Haka Maori Dancers Rare “Unissued” Complete stamp booklet of 10: