Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

danyeung,

Here's an excellent example where a pair of Die 2Bs has one stamp apparently without the 'ST' frame break. The break is, as Robert has stated, inconstant.

09.0d Roo BDN Pos 5 6 030 032 2400 COM.jpg

09.0d Roo BDN Pos 5 6 030 032 2400  collage -01.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by danyeung »

Hi Derbyboi2 & Kainnikanada, thanks for confirming it is Die IIB :)

I can see the outer frame break over ST of Australia but was confused with the break in inner right frame opposite PENCE.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by danyeung »

Can expert members help to comment on these 5s OS roos ? Thanks

Do left and middle stamps qualify as elongated Spencer's Gulf variety ?

Is the extra "ear" of the middle roo a constant flaw ?

Is the right roo misplaced or only a slight shift from the centre ?
5s roos front (2).jpg

5s roos back (2).jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

danyeung,

Some suggestions/recommendations for eliciting helpful comments from members.

Post separate images to enable maximum size as opposed to grouping imsges - when practicable.

If you have a specific part of the stamp that is the basis of your question/comment then crop the area to remove the extraneous or superfluous portion of the image.

Lastly consider the colour of the image. Can you alter the intensity/shade etc to help us better see the area of interest. Which image below is easier on the eyes enabling irrefutable identification?

092.4.1.03.00.155-51.L33 2400.jpg

092.4.1.03.00.155-53.L33 2400.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by danyeung »

Hi Kainnikanada,

Thanks for the suggestions and recommendations :)

I don't have the recolour app installed and need to figure out how to change the colour.

Do left and middle stamps qualify as elongated Spencer's Gulf variety ?
Left roo
Left roo

Middle roo
Middle roo

Is the extra "ear" of the middle roo a constant flaw ?
Middle roo
Middle roo

Is the right roo misplaced or only a slight shift from the centre ?
Right roo
Right roo
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Derbyboi2 »

danyeung wrote: 25 Nov 2021 22:17 Can expert members help to comment on these 5s OS roos ? Thanks

Do left and middle stamps qualify as elongated Spencer's Gulf variety ?

Is the extra "ear" of the middle roo a constant flaw ?

Is the right roo misplaced or only a slight shift from the centre ?

Image
Image
As Rod stated the scans you have provided are not sufficiently large enough to comment save that the Kangaroo in your third example is definitely not 'misplaced'. In order for it to be a misplaced Kangaroo it needs to be 3mm (for 1st Watermark) or 3.5mm (3rd Watermark) to the South, or 3mm North or South on small multi which means a large part of the Kangaroo and grass is outside the map and is easily discernible.

First watermark misplaced kangaroos are only known mint.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

The general take on misplaced Roos these days is that a substantial amount of roo has to be past the coastline, so a bit of ear protruding into the sea near Darwin wouldn't pass muster. Likewise a bit of tail in Sydney harbour.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Dan,

Here are the 2017/8 ACSC listings for the elongated Spencer Gulf:
- 2 slightly different appearances on 3 cliches: L36 and R24 & R51.

L36

ACSC 2017 p2-151 060.0d Roo 42-46(D)h -01.jpg


R24 & R51

ACSC 2017 p2-152 060.0d Roo 42-46(D)o -01.jpg
Below is a L36 with a deteriorated elongated Spencer Gulf:

116.5.1.06.00.040-51.L36YDV 2400.jpg
Below is a R24 with aN elongated Spencer Gulf

092.4.4.24.00.028-52.R24.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Borisdog »

Danyeung,

That 5/- 3rd in the middle isn't too bad anyways, 44(V)p, long tailed Roo - POS R6.

Cat $650 unpunctured and apparently OS punctured varieties are 3X catalogue
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Borisdog »

Here's a Die2B Small Multiple 1/-

Can anyone plate this?
IMG_9119 (003).jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by danyeung »

Hi Derbyboi2 & The Pom & Kainnikanada & Borisdog, your comments are much appreciated :)

Now I know the middle roo is a long tailed roo (thanks to Borisdog :D ) and the right roo is only slightly shifted up.

Kainnikanada, thanks for posting the elongated Spencer Gulf varieties. I have one last question with the left roo, hope you don't mind. The tip of the Gulf is covered by the postmark so the Gulf is longer than it seems. Is there any chances it is either R24 or R51 ?
5s roos left (4).jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

I've recently picked up a collection of 2d, 2½d & 3d Roos with varieties.

I've got most sorted, but there are a few where the previous owner has assigned plate positions not listed in the ACSC, so I assume they had more specialist checklists. There are also one or two others with points of interest.

If anyone can add any clarity on the following, it would be hugely appreciated.

Stamp 1: Third watermark. Die IIa. Suggested as being 3L20, shading breaks under LIA & left of value circle, dents in lower frame at left.

IMG_0022.jpg


Stamp 2: Third watermark. Shading break left of value circle.

IMG_0023.jpg


Stamp 3: Third watermark. Suggested as being 2L1. Shading breaks above right of Tasmania & off NSW coast.

IMG_0024.jpg


Stamp 4: Third watermark. Suggested as 2L5. Flawed base to U of AUSTRALIA.

IMG_0025.jpg


Stamp 5: Third watermark. Flaw in value circle to right of d.

IMG_0026.jpg


Stamp 6: First watermark. Suggested as 2L1 (marginal watermark lines confirm this as a top left unit). Dent in outside of right frame.

IMG_0027.jpg


Stamp 7: Third watermark. Large flaw at right.

IMG_0029.jpg


Stamp 8: Third watermark, top marginal line visible. Described as "Dry ink". The natural assumption with stamps like this is to dismiss them as scuffed/surface abrasion etc, but this looks fine in that respect. It almost has the look of a Tin Shed flaw.


IMG_0030.jpg
IMG_0031.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Borisdog,

Unable to find any listing of your 1/- flaw.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Chris,

Stamp 2 is 3L33.

Stamp 3 is 2L1.

Stamp 4 is 2L5: line break above 'TR'. The colour flaw is unlisted in Pope but I added it to my copy since i have several copies with that particular flaw i.e. constant for at least one print run.

Stamp 5 flaw appears to be a remnant of the date-stamp's ink not a flaw. Unlisted in Pope.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

Hi Rod,
Big thanks as always, much appreciated. The flaw on the 2½d is definitely the same colour as the rest of the stamp, rather than being a bit of postmark.
My first thought was that it is probably a temporary ink clog, much like the one that caused the "Missing 1 in fraction".
Cheers
Chris


IMG_0032.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Chris.

That enlargement of the 2½d does indeed confirm the inking flaw. .....but is the colour indigo similar to the missing '1' in '½'?

Stamp 6 is 2L1 as seen in this partial from 2L1-30 NWPI block courtesy Bob Parsons.

NWPI 2L1 scn2 -01.jpg
Note your 3d wmk features for the 3d could have also been potentially indicative of one of: 1L1, 1R1 & 2R1. These all have the identical upper left wmk lines at their corner.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by langtounlad »

Derbyboi2 wrote: 26 Nov 2021 23:04
danyeung wrote: 25 Nov 2021 22:17 Can expert members help to comment on these 5s OS roos ? Thanks

Do left and middle stamps qualify as elongated Spencer's Gulf variety ?

Is the extra "ear" of the middle roo a constant flaw ?

Is the right roo misplaced or only a slight shift from the centre ?

Image
Image
As Rod stated the scans you have provided are not sufficiently large enough to comment save that the Kangaroo in your third example is definitely not 'misplaced'. In order for it to be a misplaced Kangaroo it needs to be 3mm (for 1st Watermark) or 3.5mm (3rd Watermark) to the South, or 3mm North or South on small multi which means a large part of the Kangaroo and grass is outside the map and is easily discernible.

First watermark misplaced kangaroos are only known mint.


Is there a reason for not using the ACSC definition for misplaced roos.
misplacedroo.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by langtounlad »

The Pom

On your stamp 3 the flaw referred to on NSW coast opposite the kangaroo tail is an intermittent Master Die flaw. It is also present on a couple of the other stamps you posted.

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Frank,

Thanks for the clarification regarding the Sydney missing shading line. I disregard it in all of its manifestations - missing, weak/faint or normal. No different than the 'Daintree' or the 'ST' frame breaks.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Chris,

Your stamp 1.

None of the shading line breaks and the pair of outer frame line notches are documented in Pope. While browsing my limited quantity of NWPI 2d Roos I could not find anything comparable to your stamp. I did encounter the example shown below that has a solitary shading line break and a coloured flaw not listed in Pope.

106.5.2.00.00.025-01.99.jpg
Below is a 1st wmk example of 2L5 with a quite large colour flaw. Obviously not corrected until some 3rd wmk printings were made; if ever it was removed. How did Pope miss this flaw? This is a really old scan from my early days of documenting my collection.

073.3.1.05.00.003-01.2L05KCN.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Hi Chris , Rod

I also have a copy of this stamp:
IMG25_20211129_0002.jpg

There is very good chance that it is 3L20 as stated, since I have the other 3 panes (3L31-60, 3R1-30 and 3R31-60 Die 2A third watermark) in my collection and it does not appear on any of them.

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Also have a copy of 2L5

IMG25_20211129_0002.jpg

Looks like a later copy, as the flaw above TR of AUSTRALIA has now become quite obvious


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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

Thanks to David & Rod for the extra info. It seems that the shade breaks & frame dents on the suggested 3L20 are quite consistent.

I wonder what publication(s) the previous owner was using?
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

David,

Thanks for the confirmation. I did think the notches appeared legit. Pope needs an update. Can the stamp I posted be plated?

Can you write-up a brief article for BSAP?ACCCNSW? Any other unlisted flaws? Probably should include the flawed ;U; of 2L5. For completeness and posterity.

I can rescan my 1st wmk stamp if needed.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Hi Rod

While going through my various 2d kangaroos looking for your flaw next to the first A of AUSTRALIA ( which I was unable to authenticate), I came across this little gem that MAY be a distant relative of 2L5.

It is also looks to be first watermark, but it clearly cannot be from the top row given the position of the watermark and the overprint that suggests row 4 of the third setting.

I am not suggesting that your copies are not from 2L5, but that there may be similar flaws in other positions on the pane and Pope may not have been able to conclusively say that the flaw was from exclusively 2L5.

Your thoughts thanks



IMG26_20211130_0001.jpg
IMG26_20211130_0002.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

David,

Interesting. We could be looking at a working die flaw. I had updated my copy of Pope with the flaw on 2L5 which i would assume meant I had inspected other positions for the same flaw. ....but.....

I must re-inspect all my 1st - 3rd wmk stamps. Perhaps it is indeed more prevalent.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

David,

Here's a colour curve enhanced copy of the back of your stamp. The wide based 'A' indicates a 1st wmk copy. The horizontal mesh confirms. See below.

IMG26_20211130_0002 01.jpg
I've just finished inspecting 500 copies of 1st to 3rd wmk NWPI 2d roo stamps (SG 73, 86, 94 and 106). Only 2L5 has the colour flaw in the base of the 'U'. My copies are SG73 x 1, SG86 x 1 (block of 30), SG 94 x 2 (blocks of 30) and SG 106 x 1 (block of 30). Basically no change in the shape of the flaw.

My block of 30 (SG 73) is from 2R1-30 with no trace of the inking flaw on any cliche.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Rod

Your due diligence has prompted me to also re visit my collection. I have been through the backup safe and inspected the following:

1st watermark SG73 Die1 - 2R1-30 ( both pre and post bottom row substitution), 2R31-60
2nd watermark SG 94 Die 1 - 1L31-60, 2L31-60, 2R31-60
3rd watermark SG 106 Die 2A - 3L31-60, 3R1-30, 3R31-60

and numerous singles and small blocks from SG73, 86, 94 and 106. The only other possible evidence I could find of a flawed U was this particular copy from position 2R51 (SG 73)......


2R51.jpg

What are your thoughts on this one and the earlier one I posted being related
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

David,

You have a nice assortment of blocks.

From my blocks of 30 (2R31-60) SG 94 3rd wmk these are my pair of potential candidates. One does appear to have a minute incipient colour flaw in the lower left base of the 'U'. Could have been transient. These are probably 1200 dpi scans.

094.4.4.21.00.086-51.2R51YBQ.jpg

094.4.4.21.00.089-51.2R51YBT.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by langtounlad »

Kainnikanada wrote: 30 Nov 2021 09:12 David,

Interesting. We could be looking at a working die flaw. I had updated my copy of Pope with the flaw on 2L5 which i would assume meant I had inspected other positions for the same flaw. ....but.....

I must re-inspect all my 1st - 3rd wmk stamps. Perhaps it is indeed more prevalent.

Rod

I doubt that it is a working die flaw. Working die flaws would have presented numerous copies and there are no reports I have seen of such an anomaly. More likely to have been a flaw during transfer to the lead cliche or on transfer to the plate. The possibility of damage to the plate cannot be excluded.

However on a more positive note the flaw can be seen in a block of 18 large OS in the Hardy auction. Lot 62 is the reference. If you do not have the catalogue you can see it in the Phoenix archives. The plate is not identified in the catalogue but the position is clearly no 5.

I have some misgivings about Pope's work on the ½d Kangaroo flaws which I will be posting later this week or early next.

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Coincidentally, there is a 2d pane SG73 (1st watermark) being auctioned by Abacus on Dec 1 (lot 914) that is listed as 2R31-60.

Now the scan quality is not HD but I was able to download a fair copy and enlarge to a point where I believe that the flaw on the U of AUSTRALIA at position 51 could be more that transient as I believe that it appears - in some form - on this pane.

This could also be an unlisted flaw!

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Chris

Re your ink flaw on the 2½d.

I have been through the following panes and have not been able to find a match:

SG 74 - 1st watermark - 1L1-30, 1L31-60, 1R1-30, 1R31-60, 2L1-30, 2L31-60, 2R1-30, 2R31-60
SG 107 - 3rd watermark - 1R31-60, 2L1-30 (Blue) and 2L1-30 (Indigo)

However, my pane of 2L31-60 does not contain the "missing 1 in the fraction" [at] 2L33 (alas) but I have another scan of the pane that does contain that error. Now the scan is not great but there may be a similar flaw to yours at 2L57. It does not appear on my copy of 2L31-60.

It may only appear on that particular printing and may be transient like the missing 1. You will probably need to get a closeup of that sheet for confirmation, and good luck with that, as very few exist.

Sorry I can't be more precise
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by The Pom »

Hi David,
No need to apologise! Many thanks for the time you've put into trying to track this one down. In the absence of any other examples/explanations, the temporary ink clog seems as good a reason as any.
Cheers
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

David & Chris,

Those seemingly innocuous transient flaws can be often ignored but sometimes persist on the printing plate after a watermark change. I always make a mental note of their position and crop a scan to document them. I've used the inking flaw so periodically link seemingly unrelated blocks. I believe Pope didn't pay attention to the 2d Roo 2L5 inking flaw.

David might be on to something regarding the 2½d circle flaw. While working with my NWPI 2/- stamps and the scans of numerous blocks provided by Parsons I note a couple of persistent ink blobs that have been previously passed over as inconstant.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

david3461 wrote: 29 Nov 2021 19:25 Hi Chris , Rod

I also have a copy of this stamp:
Image

There is very good chance that it is 3L20 as stated, since I have the other 3 panes (3L31-60, 3R1-30 and 3R31-60 Die 2A third watermark) in my collection and it does not appear on any of them.

Cheers
David
I've really enjoyed the various journeys emanating from Chris (The Pom)'s initial post.

In relation to Chris's first stamp, of which a second copy was provided by David (david3461) (see above), here is a third (used) copy.
.
IMG_20211201_0001.jpg
.
==================
.
Purchased in 2014, it has all the same characteristics of the other two examples.

At the time I wrote the following note, which notes a dearth of proving material used by Pope.
.
IMG_20211201_0002.jpg
.

David, if you were to write a short article for the ACCCNSW, then please feel free to use the image of my stamp.

I have no information on the possible plating to 3L20.

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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by langtounlad »


As I indicated in a recent post I have misgivings about the content in the ½d Roo monograph by Greg Pope.

Recently I spotted an incorrect listing on Ebay but before tackling the seller who had quoted Pope I thought to check out the detail. The stamp was listed as ½d Kangaroo with a flaw inside the U of AUSTRALIA. Here is the picture provided

stampwin.jpg
The seller also provided a portion of the page on which this flaw appeared to confirm it is from Pope's monograph.

I then checked the Stampboards Wiki and found it listed there. While in the Wiki I checked all of the listings and found another cliche 2R47 with the same variety listed. As the Wiki is not fully populated there could be more surprises in store.

This is not a variety. The break on the inside leg of the U is a Master Die Flaw and cannot be described as a variety because every Kangaroo and Map stamp except the redrawn 2/- potentially has this flaw. Only grossly over or under inked stamps would not show it.

I do not own Pope's monograph so I cannot check if there are more howlers like this. Anyone with the monograph and a knowledge of the Master Die flaws both constant and intermittent should be able to spot mistakes of this type.

I recall that many years ago I spotted something similar in relation to the 2d monograph by Pope but at the time I was collecting Germany and did not follow up. But as the author appears to be unaware of at least one of the Master Die Flaws it is possible that such mistakes could be present in any work produced by him.

Regards
Frank
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

Frank,

Your comments about the master die flaw affecting the first U of AUSTRALIA are spot on and well worth pointing out. Thank you.

I think you are wrong with your observations about Pope's 2R47 and 2R60. Will explain in a few days time when my scanner's is repaired.

Philip
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Frank,

Did anyone proofread Pope's observations in those monographs? My copy of the 2d checklist contains a few corrections/additions I noted from unlisted examples in my collection. That 'U' break is a no-brainer.

Unfortunately the 2017 ACSC Roos I have does not document any of those master die flaws that should be pointed out to all users/collectors regardless of the flaw's transient nature.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Philip,

Re: your flawed 2d

I unsuccessfully tried deciphering the 'Registered Sydney' date-stamp. The year is brutally mangled/obfuscated. No chance of determining the complete date.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Jojo's 2/- Roo queries has led me to a new project - the unlisted flaws of the 2/- Roo.

I need help with the following pair of inking flaws. Evidence is from NWPI copies in my collection and confirmation from Parsons' CD of NWPI blocks of 30.

1. 2R7
- seen on the following:
a. SG 97 (3rd wmk)

097.4.2.07.00.129-51.2R07 2400.jpg
Is it on either 1st or 2nd wmk?

b. SG97 (3rd wmk) 2 copies in my collection and not on block from Parsons

097.4.2.07.00.129-52.2R07 2400.jpg

097.4.2.07.00.130-52.2R07.jpg
Anyone have copies? ...on any of the watermarks.

2. 2L59
- seen on the following:
a. SG 91 (2nd wmk) & SG 97 (3rd wmk)

091.4.5.29.00.140-02.2L59 2400.jpg

091.4.5.29.00.140-51.2L59 2400.jpg
- not on the following:
a. SG 115 (3rd wmk)

Is it on either 1st or 3rd wmk?
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

I believe I've either found a precursor to 2R7 or a remnant of the colour flaw. This copy is from an online seller so the image is not a hi res type. Will purchase the stamp and post a better scan later.

Zirinsky 2021 12 01 -08 -01.jpg

Zirinsky 2021 12 01 -08 -02.jpg
The type of 'A's in the overprint position the stamp from the 2nd row of the 4th Setting of either SG97 or 97w (3rd wmk).
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

Rod,

I've got some notes written by Richard Guy that you might find useful. I'll send them to you by email if I can find them!

Philip
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

langtounlad wrote: 01 Dec 2021 12:09
As I indicated in a recent post I have misgivings about the content in the ½d Roo monograph by Greg Pope.

Recently I spotted an incorrect listing on Ebay but before tackling the seller who had quoted Pope I thought to check out the detail. The stamp was listed as ½d Kangaroo with a flaw inside the U of AUSTRALIA. Here is the picture provided

Image

The seller also provided a portion of the page on which this flaw appeared to confirm it is from Pope's monograph.

I then checked the Stampboards Wiki and found it listed there. While in the Wiki I checked all of the listings and found another cliche 2R47 with the same variety listed. As the Wiki is not fully populated there could be more surprises in store.

This is not a variety. The break on the inside leg of the U is a Master Die Flaw and cannot be described as a variety because every Kangaroo and Map stamp except the redrawn 2/- potentially has this flaw. Only grossly over or under inked stamps would not show it.

I do not own Pope's monograph so I cannot check if there are more howlers like this. Anyone with the monograph and a knowledge of the Master Die flaws both constant and intermittent should be able to spot mistakes of this type.

I recall that many years ago I spotted something similar in relation to the 2d monograph by Pope but at the time I was collecting Germany and did not follow up. But as the author appears to be unaware of at least one of the Master Die Flaws it is possible that such mistakes could be present in any work produced by him.

Regards
Frank
My response to Frank's post is a little vague, but I don't know how best to sharpen it.

I start by noting the obvious - that there are a known set of plate flaws that affect all printings of the green Roo. Those flaws, as I understand them, are shown below.
.
Master flaws.jpg
.
The characteristic flaws are:

(1) A break in the coast-line of the map on the western side of the Bight – the “Esperance Flaw”;

(2) A break in the coast-line at Cape Leeuwin in Western Australia;

(3) A break in the coast-line at the Eastern tip of Arnhem Land;

(4) A break in the upper-most shade-line below the last letter of value 2mm in from the right frame;

(5) The “Die I flaw”: a break in the inner left frame just above the first letter of the value plug;

(6) The “Darwin Flaw”: a constant break on the left inner frame line 6 mm down from the upper left corner;

(7) The “Queensland” flaw: a break in the coast-line on Cape York;

(8) A break on the inner side of the right hand stroke of U of AUSTRALIA;

(9) A break on the outer side of the left hand stroke of the third A of AUSTRALIA; and

(10) Break in the outside of the lower horizontal extension of E in PENNY.

The last mentioned is found on every ½d green stamp (unless overinked) and is a characteristic of the letters-of-value plug.

Sources for this listing are the two ACCCNSW articles reproduced here in a posting from Kainnikanada, https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=3745957#p3745957, various observations reported here by langtounlad and a comment in Pope's monograph.

Flaws 1-3 and 7-9 are found on all Roo printings, except for the 2/- on the redrawn die. Flaw 5 applies to all Die I printings and flaws 4 & 6 apply to many Die I printings, including all of the ½d green ones. Flaw 10 is specific to the ½d green only.

Since 1-10 are characteristics of all ½d greens (overinking aside), for plating purposes they might be considered as part of the normal (non-varietal) form of the stamp. Thus, in most published Roo plating studies (including the ACSC), other than (5) there is little or no mention of these features.

I'm confident that an experienced plater like Pope was more than aware of these matters. Now, back to langtounlad's comments.

This is Pope's observation on 2R47, "Break in the colored section of the right arm of U of AUSTRALIA", and this is the illustration
.
IMG_20211202_0004.jpg
.
Clearly the flaw that Pope was referring to is not the Master Die flaw (8), but another break on the opposite side of the right-hand stroke below the master die break. The flaw can be seen in the WIKI example (but boy, it's small!)

This is Pope's observation on 2R60, "The right stroke of U of AUSTRALIA is broken inside", and this is the illustration
.
IMG_20211202_0005.jpg
.
Pope's illustration is poor and mine is not much better in the WIKI, but there is a fine white line on the inside of the right-hand stroke below the master die break. I have three examples of this flaw, but the flaw itself is poor and probably not deserving of catalogue status.

When my scanner is repaired, I'll try to get better pictures of these two flaws for the WIKI, and add some more explanation.

Philip
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by david3461 »

Sorry Rod - this is all I could find. My 2/- collection is pretty basic

IMG31_20211202_0002.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

I have identified an additional 2 flaws and one potential flaw on the 2/- plates. These are from 1L and are from my collection with confirmation from Parsons's CD scans.

1. 1L38
- possibly a 2nd state
- seen on 3rd wmk NWPI SG 115
- Bozic asked about the plating of this flaw in an ACCCNSW Bulletin article while researching unlisted 2/- flaws for inclusion in an upcoming ACSC Roo edition.

115.5.2.08.00.056-02.1L38 2400.jpg

115.5.2.08.00.056-51.1L38 2400.jpg
Does this occur on earlier wmks? Is it a 2nd state in 3rd wmk?

2. 1L40
- seen on 3rd wmk NWPI SG 115

115.5.2.10.00.047-02.1L40 2400.jpg

115.5.2.10.00.047-51.1L40 2400 copy.jpg
Does this occur on earlier wmks?

3. 1L39
- seen on an NWPI 3rd wmk (SG115)
- this is a speculative potential inking flaw
- I believe it could be a remnant of the deteriorating coastal flaw on 1L38 that could have migrated and adhered to 1L39. Probably temporary or even fictional.

NWPI scn68 115 1L39 -02 adjusted.jpg

NWPI scn68 115 1L38-9 -01 adjusted.jpg
Does this occur on earlier wmks?
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Philip,

Thanks for the Guy reference. I have an email address for him. Will try to elicit a response.
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Here is a constant flaw I see only on the 2/- stamps. There is a small break in the 1st shading line beneath the left foot of the 'W' of 'TWO'. Probably manifested itself during the manufacture of the printing plates for this stamp since I recall not seeing it on any other denomination. As in all the Roo master die flaws Frank and Philip are discussing I automatically ignore this flaw i.e. I am not consciously noting if it is present.

I should confirm if it is on all cliches. Unfortunately the best or sharpest printings are from the 2nd wmk and I have all singles 'cept for one vertical strip of 3.

091.4.4.00.00.067-51.99KEE 2400.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by PhilipAdams »

Apology to readers for flipping back to the green roo discussion.

Below are images of the two flaws referred to in the correspondence with langtounlad.

These will go into the WIKI with clarifying notes.

===================
2R47 (later stage)
.
IMG_20211203_0001.jpg
.
IMG_20211203_0002.jpg
===================
.
2R60 (not a good flaw)
.
IMG_20211203_0003.jpg
.
IMG_20211203_0004.jpg
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by josto »

Kainnikanada wrote: 02 Dec 2021 08:19 Jojo's 2/- Roo queries has led me to a new project - the unlisted flaws of the 2/- Roo.

I need help with the following pair of inking flaws. Evidence is from NWPI copies in my collection and confirmation from Parsons' CD of NWPI blocks of 30.

1. 2R7
- seen on the following:
a. SG 97 (3rd wmk)


Image

Is it on either 1st or 2nd wmk?

b. SG97 (3rd wmk) 2 copies in my collection and not on block from Parsons


Image


Image

Anyone have copies? ...on any of the watermarks.

2. 2L59
- seen on the following:
a. SG 91 (2nd wmk) & SG 97 (3rd wmk)


Image


Image

- not on the following:
a. SG 115 (3rd wmk)

Is it on either 1st or 3rd wmk?
Hi Rod,

I had a quick look through my 2sh brown 3rd wmk kangaroos. I don`t have very many (maybe about 120 or so), but maybe this example might fit to your 2R7 flaw? It seems to have an inking flaw in the same position left of the first A of Australia. Unfortunately it is also a third wmk example. I also had a look at the 1st wmk (only 20 examples) and 2nd wmk (only 14 examples) 2sh kangaroos, but couldn`t find a match! I`m not sure if the possible 2R7 example is of any help for you, but I thought I should nevertheless show it.
Australia 2sh kangaroo flaw.jpg
Greetings

josto
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Re: Flaws on Aust Kangaroo stamps? Help from the experts please!

Post by Kainnikanada »

Josto,

Appreciate the help. I like your scan. Now I have to determine which of our examples comes first and when did the inking flaw first appear. Are there 3 states: normal, first 1 dot then 2 dots joined or just 2 states: 1 dot then 2 joined?

Additional work needed and more examples. Thanks again for the thorough search of your collection.

Philip has just sent me some notes on a 2/- block R. Guy had forwarded to him. These will assist me with flaws on pane 1R1-30 which I have a somewhat legible scan of a block of 30 to compare with. Thanks to Philip for the notes.
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