Value of my GB 1884 "Lilac & Green" QV heads used stamps set?

[fossick]

Hi

Need advice from the Experts please.

I recently discovered these in an old stock book and before I consider moving them on I would like to know a bit more about them.

Is there anything special about the postmarks, are there any faults/flaws to consider?
Are there different dies or plates?

What might be a realistic sale price?

Happy to provide additional scans.

I am very aware that they are prone to fading if soaked in water for too long. Is there a safe method of cleaning them up a bit.

Grateful for all constructive advice.

Regards

John G

[joelk]

Hi John,

I wouldn't soak them for sure. That would seriously damage them.

They look a bit soiled but they have a strong green color, which is good. There are two Scottish cancels (the second and third on the first row).

They have fairly heavy cancels, but I reckon that due to their strong color and the fact that they look to be in decent condition, you could get around 5% of cat for them.

I would not count the stamp with the clipped perfs. So that would put this lot close to $100.

Cheers,
Joel.

[fossick]

Joel

Thankyou for that.

Regards

John G

[GlenStephens]

"Is there a safe method of cleaning them up a bit?"

John .. take Joel's advice.

These are from the 1884 "Lilac and Green" set to 1/-, and are printed with "doubly fugitive ink".

The PO did that so that anyone trying to clear off a revenue cancel (that were often found on these) in order to re-use the stamps again, would see the fade colour fade markedly.

Near all used stamps have been in water by definition, but some several times, over the past 125 years. The color fades a little each time. So the better the colour, the better the retail price!

As Joel said yours look of pretty decent colour .. they often go a very pale greenish yellow if often washed.

Here is a MINT 9d I have on my Rarity page now, that shows the original colour.

Glen

[fossick]

Hi Glen

Appreciate your advice along with same from Joel.

Interestingly some of mine still have what looks like gum on the reverse, so perhaps not soaked for long. The colour seems a good match for yours on the screen for most of them.

Regards

John G

[dutchmanstamps]

I bought these on Ebay and was wondering what these are actually worth.

The dealer had a price on them and the SG catalog also lists them quite high.























First post with images.

Now I have to see about names under them but they are easily readable.

[Alastair]

Hello dutchmanstamps,

This is quite an expensive set with the 9d being the most expensive one. Unfortunately, the 9d you have is perhaps in the worst condition of the set you show.

The set would go for over 60 pounds sterling on ebay, I would guess. As you say the CV is far higher than that!

Alastair

[vikingeck]

This issue is notorious for the colours being fugitive and easily washed out in water. So once they have been soaked off, the colour ( especially the greens) fade considerably.

The Gibbons price reflects this and is for GOOD STRONG COLOUR!

The second point is that as higher values they would be used on parcels rather than letters and as such will get heavy , messy cancels .

To qualify as VERY FINE they need good colour and light cancels .

Several of yours are AVERAGE condition only and should be available at 5-10% catalogue.

[goof]

Hi

As Alastair has mentioned the Lilac and Green set as they are know is a pretty expensive set, these are generally reasonable examples.

They do suffer from people soaking them and often have some toning, likewise they often have heavy cancels whereas some of these are quite good.

The 9d has some toning and possible a thin, but without a back scan I can't comment further. The ½d is centred high.

If bought separately they would cost about £100-110 but as a set fetch anywhere between £60-80.

Whatever you do don't give these a soak they really don't like it

Personally I would replace the ½d with a better example and watch the toning on the 9d doesn't spread.

regards
Mick

[gavin-h]

I bought these on Ebay and was wondering what these are actually worth.

May I suggest that in future, you find out the value of anything you intend to purchase BEFORE buying it.

You'd be surprised how many times on Stampboards this happens. Why, I don't know, because you wouldn't buy a house or a car without knowing the value first, but with stamps a different set of rules seem to apply.

[dutchmanstamps]

I bought these on Ebay and was wondering what these are actually worth.

May I suggest that in future, you find out the value of anything you intend to purchase BEFORE buying it.

You'd be surprised how many times on Stampboards this happens. Why, I don't know, because you wouldn't buy a house or a car without knowing the value first, but with stamps a different set of rules seem to apply.

I had an idea from catalog what they were worth based on condition visible on Ebay. I paid $40.00 US for the set with free shipping. I sort of wanted to find out from the members if that was too much or not.

[vikingeck]

You are certainly OK at $40!

All our "guesstimates" are about double that

[dutchmanstamps]

I thank everyone for their responses and feel free to add more. I read them all and learn from them.

[Global Administrator]

This below is a very fresh Never Hinged 9d I just sold, so the colour of course is exactly as issued at PO.

Compare that the the faded ones you have. And remember you cannot "clean up" your grotty and badly foxed 9d, via a soak in hot water, or it will lose half the colour again!

When soaked these all take on a YELLOW/GREEN hue that the original colour does not have as you can see. This "Lilac and Green" set as a high cat as Fine Used, BECAUSE near all on the market are faded and ruined.

As others have correctly stated these are on doubly fugitive ink, meant to fade when immersed in water, so as cunning Victorians could not remove fiscal pen cancels!

That heavy foxing on your 9d is a well established living fungal cancer in the paper and will infect EVERYTHING stored near it or around it, and in 10 years the stamp will be fit only for the bin, as it will be eaten away basically.

It is like wooden stairs with bad dry rot - nothing can save them. And buying rotted wooden stairs at a 'bargain price', is no bargain really.

Glen

[dutchmanstamps]

This below is a very fresh Never Hinged 9d I just sold, so the colour of course is exactly as issued at PO.

Compare that the the faded ones you have. And remember you cannot "clean up" your grotty and badly foxed 9d, via a soak in hot water, or it will lose half the colour again!

When soaked these all take on a YELLOW/GREEN hue that the original colour does not have as you can see. This "Lilac and Green" set as a high cat as Fine Used, BECAUSE near all on the market are faded and ruined.

As others have correctly stated these are on doubly fugitive ink, meant to fade when immersed in water, so as cunning Victorians could not remove fiscal pen cancels!

That heaving foxing on your 9d is a well established living fungal cancer in the paper and will infect EVERYTHING stored near it or around it, and in 10 years the stamp will be fit only for the bin, as it will be eaten away basically.

It is like wooden stairs with bad dry rot - nothing can save them. And buying rotted wooden stairs at a 'bargain price', is no bargain really.

Glen

Are there any good used ones to be found (have they all been ruined with soaking) or are the only good ones mint.

[Global Administrator]

Are there any good used ones to be found (have they all been ruined with soaking) or are the only good ones mint.

Sure un-faded used copies certainly exist. And command high prices of course.

Often ones that were snipped off cover or part peeled off cover, with much paper remaining, by collectors who even at the time knew NOT to soak them!

This was a mint one I sold recently. If this was on piece with a cancel, the colour would be the same of course. Notice no Green/YELLOW hue that occurs when water comes into contact with these.

Glen

[dutchmanstamps]

I just snooped on Ebay and here is what is available today on .com.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261726110323

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251815334285

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141548216499

Hence why I am moving away from Ebay

[Global Administrator]

I just snooped on Ebay and here is what is available today on .com.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/261726110323

Hence why I am moving away from Ebay

Remember always that ebay is the venue where the sellers and buyers are nearly always totally clueless.

Hence your example of this basically worthless dog is being offered for $A135. And some Bunny will doubtless grab it as a "Bargain".

HEAVILY faded, badly foxed and creased .. (and we can't even see the back!) none of this minor detail is noted by clueless seller of course.

[dutchmanstamps]

Are there any good used ones to be found (have they all been ruined with soaking) or are the only good ones mint.

Sure un-faded used copies certainly exist. And command high prices of course.

Often ones that were snipped off cover or part peeled off cover, with much paper remaining, by collectors who even at the time knew NOT to soak them!

This was a mint one I sold recently. If this was on piece with a cancel, the colour would be the same of course. Notice no Green/YELLOW hue that occurs when water comes into contact with these.

Glen

Where would you put this one, as I said, learning

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Great-Britain-1883-9d-Green-SG-195-f ... 5418da36f4

[Paulbar]

I wish I would have read this thread earlier - I actually soaked two of these last night without knowing about the fugitive inks - I did notice that these stamps curled terribly in distilled water with a couple of drops of white vinegar - much different than normal stamps - however their colour did not seem to change after soaking

Paul

[Global Administrator]

Where would you put this one, as I said, learning

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Great-Britain-1883-9d-Green-SG-195-fine-used-F073-/361194206964

Please add IMAGES each time, saved in YOUR imgur account, of all this 3rd grade cr*p you list for opinion, as in 2 weeks it will have vanished off ebay, making this thread totally meaningless to anyone.

Now I have work to do, packing up real orders for real collectors, but lets look at this gem described as "Fine Used". Let me add the image, as after all, I have nothing else to do with my time, except save members from themselves.

I am the toughest grader of used in this country, and sell every Australia stamp in 6 grades from "space-filler" to "Superb". Why? Because no 2 used stamps ARE the same grade.

On ebay there is simply one grade used by most sellers - "FINE USED". The buyers are generally too clueless to know any different, so a perfect match of the blind meeting the blind.

Let's look at this new ebay discovery "Fine Used" stamp of yours.

Fuzzy lazy scan, that may well be colour corrected - who would know?

Centered horrifically to left, that no sane buyer would ever regard as "Fine Used" on a key stamp. But on ebay of course it is.

Crudely re-perfed by a blind Chimpanzee with a hat pin it looks like, along the top, that again no ebay buyer or seller will ever care or notice about of course, as it is "an ebay Bargain". Can't you folks SEE totally obvious re-perfs???????????????????

So I'll now go back to mailing out real stamps, to savvy buyers, and let you drool all day over all those juicy "ebay bargains" and let others assist in your education, if they have time.

Glen

[dutchmanstamps]

Sorry about not uploading image.

I did not drool over it, I did not say it was gem, I did not say I agreed with anything in the listing, so please tell me why you are taking a strip off a new collector trying to learn. All I asked for was an opinion to help me try to see what to look for.

[stallzer]

JZ, all is not lost on ebay, you just need to tread carefully. There are many good sellers on ebay and there are crooks and there are the uninformed. When buying on ebay always request a 1200dpi scan of both front and back.

Grading to me is a joke because the term "fine" is misleading and should be changed to poor. I know what I want in a stamp as far as centering, balanced margins, no thins, etc. Condition IS everything in stamps and when one goes to sell these little paper shapes, that's the first thing looked at by potential buyers.

[steevh]

Having just acquired a couple more spare greens from the GB Queen Victoria lilac and green stamp series (1883), I was wondering how to value them.

According to Gibbons, the washed greens are "virtually worthless".

But I did this search on UK eBay for completed listings:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Victoria-/23739/i.html?_from=R40%7 ... _Auction=1


and found this badly washed example going for GBP 28+

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GB-QV-1884-6d-Green-from-Lilac-Gre ... 0908066344

while this one with good colour (but heavier cancel) getting a mere GBP 3.50

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GB-QV-1884-5d-Green-from-Lilac-Gre ... 0908064081

And they were from the same vendor, ending a few minutes apart.

The general pattern seems to be that buyers are only paying attention to the cancels, and totally ignoring whether a stamp is washed or not.

[Global Administrator]

The general pattern seems to be that buyers are only paying attention to the cancels, and totally ignoring whether a stamp is washed or not.

And this surprises you in some way? Given the vast hordes of Bunnies that buy cheerfully on ebay - a vast chunk of whom have has likely never seen a SG catalogue, or an SG note, in their life. 8)

Heck why 'waste' 50 bucks on CATALOGUE for 50 bucks when you are spending 100s, if not 1000s on GB stamps.

This below is a very fresh Never Hinged 9d Lilac And Green I just sold, so the colour of course is exactly as issued by the PO.

Compare that with the faded one you highlighted - worth near zero in the REAL world - outside of ebay. And remember he cannot "clean up" that grotty and faded 6d, via a soak in hot water, or it will lose half the faded colour again!

When soaked for more than a few seconds, these all take on a YELLOW/GREEN hue that the original colour does not have, as you can see. This "Lilac and Green" set has a high cat as Fine Used, BECAUSE near all on the market are faded and ruined.

These were printed in doubly fugitive ink, meant to fade when immersed in water, so as cunning Victorians could not remove fiscal pen cancels off the high values!

Glen

[Global Administrator]

To show the total cluelessness of many ebay "sellers", this near faded to white basically valueless paper rag is offered on ebay right now described as "VFU" - I kid you not!

Essentially worthless. The seller is very appropriately named "luckydummie"

The 6d (Cat £240 if unfaded) should be the EXACT colour of the 9d below I sold this week.

[steevh]

So it looks like eBay is a good place to buy unwashed greens and sell washed green duds.

[mozzerb]

I wish I'd seen that 5d with the (not all that heavy) squared circle cancel and good colour. Somebody got a bargain there!

[Global Administrator]

I wish I would have read this thread earlier - I actually soaked two of these last night without knowing about the fugitive inks

Paul

This shows perfectly in the 4d and 9d why the GB 1884 Fugitive green ink QV should NEVER be soaked in water!

[Finnthedog]

Interesting thread. I've got one of these for sale right now. Pretty faded to really faded. Not asking much, but I think I'll yank it. May use to compare to others if I come across one.

[Pampstamp]

Don't collect these but noticed this pair!

What got my interest was the sideways watermark.
Can it handle a hot water bath?

What is the CV and fair value?

.

[ViccyVFU]

Don't collect these but noticed this pair!

What got my interest was the sideways watermark.
Can it handle a hot water bath?

What is the CV and fair value?

Its really best to bring NONE of the lilac and green series close to water. Whilst not "the double fugitive" of the green, it will suffer water damage to a lesser extent.

Here's a mint one, for comparison...

GB - SG190 - 2½d Lilac - Mint


... and with any water based removal from backing paper, you will see very minor bleeding

GB - SG190 - 2½d Lilac - Fine Used

Sideways watermark is normal for all the landscape stamps in this series.
(The paper was normal, they just printed the stamps sideways!!).

Value wise, well SG of a couple of years back suggests £20 each,
but transaction value of the VFU one shown above was just £5 (inc p&p).

So I'd be thinking "that sort of ball park" for your pair.
(Even though pairs are rarer, you have uneven perfs, and toning).

(The postmark is LEYTONSTONE, which is in North London)

[Pampstamp]

Sideways watermark is normal for all the landscape stamps in this series.
(The paper was normal, they just printed the stamps sideways!!).

Value wise, well SG of a couple of years back suggests £20 each,
but transaction value of the VFU one shown above was just £5 (inc p&p).

So I'd be thinking "that sort of ball park" for your pair.
(Even though pairs are rarer, you have uneven perfs, and toning).

(The postmark is LEYTONSTONE, which is in North London)

Thanks ViccyVFU for your detailed response!

Wmk. sideways-inverted- Is that pointing to the left as seen from back ?