Stamps motivate us to engage with different languages - try it out here

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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Aaahh! "He" (ה) instead of "khet" (ח)! With Eli's help, this might finally be correct:

חֲנֻכָּה
חַג יָפֶה כָּל כָּךְ


חַג
[chag] [= χaɡ]
(χ as in German "acht" — eight)
holiday

The stamps carry a script version of the words
חַג שָׂמֵחַ
[chag sameach]
[= χaɡ saˈme.aχ]
Happy Holiday
.
Thanks for the link to the children's Hanukkah song — it's a bright performance of just over a minute.
It's followed by a second link to a brief cartoon Hanukkah celebration:
.
Screen Shot 2022-06-15 at 1.02.39 am.png
חֲנֻכָּה שָׂמֵחַ
[hanukkah sameach]
Happy Hanukkah
.
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

More on homophones in English.

Do you notice mistaken words creeping into English, based on lack of awareness of spelling differences for pairs of homophones? Are you forgiving, or do they distract you to the point that they detract from the intended impact/value of the message?

A small collection of recent examples
after going threw as many images as possible
through —> threw [past tense of "throw"]
There could be another explanation then the one I’m suggesting
than —> then [adverb, (1) at that time; (2) after that]
(Canadian and US pronunciation)
he turned into the side-street
in to —> into [two prepositions replaced by one preposition]
(the verbs "to turn in" and "to turn into" are different)
Less significant, but still resulting in loss of precision, are instances of confounding the following pairs:
practice vs practise [noun vs verb]
licence vs license [noun vs verb]


Not homophones, but confused words with similar pronunciation
Today I bought my children
brought —> bought [loss of "r"]
("brought" is past tense of "bring"; "bought" is past tense of "buy")


General comment
Pointing out the differences in these examples is potentially instructive. I suggest that attending to the
differences is in the interests of valuing accurate information content.
A common attitude is that the distinctions pointed out with these examples are fussy and unnecessary:
that attitude might cover a lack of careful thought, a skill that education normally develops. It might be
a rationalisation of carelessness and lack of respect for the value of accuracy.

/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Acronyms revisited

Etymology of "acronym"

Be prepared to be surprised...

Screen Shot 2022-06-22 at 2.18.13 pm.png
Screen Shot 2022-06-22 at 2.19.27 pm.png
The surprise is not the classical Greek composition of "acronym", but the recency of its coinage. I would have guessed it had been in English (and its equivalent in German) for centuries. Not so, 1940s in English, and 1920s in German. This must implicitly document a sociological phenomenon: frequent and widespread use of acronyms is a modern innovation — I would argue, an undesirable fashion that results in narrower and diminished communication, implicit in-group appeal, and loss of clarity.


A campaign against acronyms

I have an ongoing campaign against slick, unexplained use of acronyms. My basic point is that they narrow and diminish communication, because they are comfortably understood only by the in-group that uses them regularly.
In another thread I've made a post about two recent examples, "DM" and "PM".
https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=8753866#p8753866
The examples of "DM" and "PM" (not Deutsche Mark and post meridiem) are just part of the trend.
One of the criticisms of acronyms is illustrated in that remark. A single acronym can have many different meanings, and it might be difficult to know which is intended, especially if there is loss of context. As an example, my local city council has created a division that goes by the acronym "ACT". Most Australians immediately recognise the acronym ACT = Australian Capital Territory (the territory where Canberra and our federal parliament are located). But no, in the context of my local city council, ACT = Arts, Culture and Tourism. Grrr!


Examples

As evidence that acronyms diminish precision and lull us into superficial thought I offer a few familiar examples.

Do you know the phrases these acronyms abbreviate? I suggest that if we don't know the generating phrase then we don't know the actual definition of the acronym, and this results in imprecise usage, shallow and inexact thought on the subject, and a loss of relevant information.
.

e.g., i.e.
pdf, bcc, http
ASCII, IEEE, IPA
MRI, ECG
CIA, MI5, ASIO
USSR, NATO, ASEAN, UNESCO

.
I leave that as a private test for you to think about. A follow-up discussion is promised ;)

Two opposing positions regarding use of acronyms

(1) Pro:
Abbreviations and acronyms are shortened forms of words or phrases. They assist in making manuscripts easy to read and understand. Additionally, they help in meeting the strict word-count targets, avoiding the repetition of words, thereby making the text easy to read.
https://www.enago.com/academy/abbreviations-and-acronyms/
(2) Con:
Abbreviations saddle a reader with the chore of deciphering the meaning of words that could simply have been spelled out.

In his 2014 book The Sense of Style: The Thinking Person’s Guide to Writing in the 21st Century, APS [= Association for Psychological Science] William James Fellow Steven A. Pinker of Harvard University reiterates the importance of writing things out, and illustrates a common and frustrating experience with abbreviations:

[W]riters forget that the few seconds they add to their own lives come at the cost of many minutes stolen from the lives of their readers. I stare at a table of numbers whose columns are labeled DA DN SA SN, and have to flip back and scan for the explanation: Dissimilar Affirmative, Dissimilar Negative, Similar Affirmative, Similar Negative. Each abbreviation is surrounded by many inches of white space. What possible reason could there have been for the author not to spell them out? (p. 64)

Other writing style guides repeat the same wisdom. One especially interesting case is the American Chemical Society’s ACS Style Guide, which, without apparent irony, advises writers to “avoid abbreviations in the title of a paper.”
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/alienating-the ... munication


/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Acronyms cont.

e.g. = exempli gratia
Exempli gratia [Latin]: literally “for the sake of example,”
or, more freely, “for example".

i.e. = id est
id est [Latin]: literally “that/this/it is,” — usually "that is"

• i.e. is an abbreviation for the phrase id est, which means "that is";
i.e. is used to restate something said previously in order to clarify its meaning. (*)
• e.g. is short for exempli gratia, which means "for example";
e.g. is used before an item or list of items that serve as examples for the previous statement.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/ie-vs-eg-abbreviation-meaning-usage-difference
(*) A common error is the use of "i.e." when "e.g." is intended.
To introduce an example, use "e.g.", don't use "i.e."

pdf = portable document format
It's a versatile file format created by Adobe that gives people an easy, reliable way to present
and exchange documents — regardless of the software, hardware, or operating systems being
used by anyone who views the document.

bcc = blind carbon copy
For e-mailing, CC is the acronym for “carbon copy.” Back in the days before internet and e-mail,
in order to create a copy of the letter you were writing, you had to place carbon paper between
the one you were writing on and the paper that was going to be your copy.
Just like the physical carbon copy, CC is an easy way to send copies of an email to other people.
BCC stands for “blind carbon copy.” Both CC and BCC are ways of sending copies of an e-mail to
other people. The difference is that any recipient can see the list of recipients included under CC,
that’s not the case with BCC. It’s called blind carbon copy because the other recipients aren't able
to see the list of recipients included under BCC.

http = hypertext transfer protocol
Hypertext Transfer Protocol is the set of rules for transferring files — such as text, images, sound,
video and other multimedia files — over the web. As soon as you open your web browser, you are
indirectly using HTTP.

ASCII = American Standard Code for Information Interchange
American Standard Code for Information Interchange is a character encoding standard for
electronic communication. ASCII codes represent text in computers, telecommunications
equipment, and other devices. Most modern character-encoding schemes are based on ASCII,
although they support many additional characters.

IEEE = Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers
The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) is a professional organization that aims t
o advance technological innovation and excellence. In areas such as electrical engineering, computer s
cience and electronics, IEEE publishes almost one-third of the technical literature in the world each year.

IPA = International Phonetic Alphabet
The International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) is an alphabetic system of phonetic notation based primarily
on the Latin script. It was devised by the International Phonetic Association in the late 19th century as a standardized representation of speech sounds in written form.
The IPA is used by lexicographers, foreign language students and teachers,linguists, speech pathologists,
singers, actors, constructed language creators and translators.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Association

MRI = Magnetic resonance imaging
Magnetic resonance imaging is a medical imaging technique used in radiology to form pictures
of the anatomy and the physiological processes of the body. MRI scanners use strong magnetic fields,
magnetic field gradients, and radio waves to generate images of the organs in the body.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_resonance_imaging

ECG = electrocardiogram xx
An electrocardiogram is a medical test that detects cardiac (heart) abnormalities by measuring
the electrical activity generated by the heart as it contracts.

CIA = Central Intelligence Agency
The Central Intelligence Agency is a US independent government agency in the executive branch,
charged with carrying out intelligence and counterintelligence operations in support of national security.

MI5 = Military Intelligence (Section 5)
In the UK, "MI5/MI6" were the original designations when both organisations came under the War Office,
now the Ministry of Defence (MOD). "MI" stands for military intelligence. Their official names, acquired \in the 1930s, are the Security Service (MI5) and the SIS — Secret Intelligence Service (MI6).

ASIO = Australian Security Intelligence Organisation
The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation is Australia's national security intelligence service.
It exists to protect Australia, its people and its interests from serious threats to security.
https://www.asio.gov.au/index.html

USSR = Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
Officially, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or Soviet Union. It existed as a political entity
from 1922 to 1991, spanning much of Eurasia.

NATO = North Atlantic Treaty Organization
A defence collective, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization was founded in 1949. It is a group of 30 European
and North American countries that exists to protect the people and territory of its members.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/organisation.htm

ASEAN = Association of Southeast Asian Nations
The Association of Southeast Asian Nations was established on 8 August 1967 in Bangkok, Thailand,
with the signing of the ASEAN Declaration (Bangkok Declaration) by the Founding Fathers of ASEAN,
namely Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore and Thailand. Brunei Darussalam then joined on 7 Jan 1984,
Viet Nam on 28 July 1995, Lao PDR and Myanmar on 23 July 1997, and Cambodia on 30 April 1999, making up
what is today the ten Member States of ASEAN.
https://asean.org/about-us/

UNESCO = United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization
The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization was born on 16 November 1945.
UNESCO has 195 Members and 8 Associate Members and is governed by the General Conference
and the Executive Board.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNESCO
Switzerland,  2003: UNESCO World Heritage sites (Mi 1846-1850)
Switzerland, 2003: UNESCO World Heritage sites (Mi 1846-1850)
.
/RogerE :D
Last edited by RogerE on 23 Jun 2022 03:14, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Old Architect »

RogerE wrote: 23 Jun 2022 00:23
I have an ongoing campaign against slick, unexplained use of acronyms. My basic point is that they narrow and diminish communication, because they are comfortably understood only by the in-group that uses them regularly.
In another thread I've made a post about two recent examples, "DM" and "PM". Don't forget Prime Minister or "MP"
As an example, my local city council has created a division that goes by the acronym "ACT" = Australian Capital Territory . ACT = Arts, Culture and Tourism. Grrr! Not to mention the American College Testing exam! Grrr!!

I suggest that if we don't know the generating phrase then we don't know the actual definition of the acronym, and this results in imprecise usage, shallow and inexact thought on the subject, and a loss of relevant information.
.


Orwell's 1984 "New Speak" is EXACTLY what you've described!!!!!! This is reductionist thinking - modern day sophistry!!
Last edited by Old Architect on 23 Jun 2022 03:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by honza »

Ahoj Roger,

That is an interesting list.

'Id est' for 'i.e.' is clear, but I feel sure that I was told at school that 'e.g.' was 'ex genere' 'of the type'.

Was I completely misinformed or are there rival contenders for its origin? A preliminary search online does not produce anything for 'ex genere'.

It probably just illustrates how errors unchallenged can be perpetuated.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Number-O-Ne »

In Italian school I learned it as "exempli gratia" as well.
Italian Social (Not Socialist :mrgreen: ) Republic Postal History
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Thanks Old Architect and Honza for your contributions.

Honza, I wonder if the "official" Latin phrase generating the acronym "e.g." varies in different European linguistic traditions. In English contexts, I find only exempli gratia being acknowledged.

For English, the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) is the canonical reference
Screen Shot 2022-06-23 at 2.32.01 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-06-23 at 2.31.28 am.png
https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/978019513 ... omma%20...

Screen Shot 2022-06-23 at 3.07.32 am.png
The American Psychological Association (APA) Style Guide has
Screen Shot 2022-06-23 at 3.00.01 am.png
I found this online reference to ex genere
(I hadn't previously seen it connected with "e.g.", but I must say it has some appeal.)
Screen Shot 2022-06-23 at 2.19.48 am.png
https://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/ex-genere
.
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by andy66 »

Number-O-Ne wrote: 23 Jun 2022 03:34 In Italian school I learned it as "exempli gratia" as well.
The courious thing is that in Italy the Latin abbreviations are not used! Maybe with the exception of etc., that anyway is often written as ecc.
...but lately, like it or not, we are importing lots of English neologisms and between them there are also the abbreviations, the most common now is vs. (usually used in sport matches)...and very few people know the real meaning of the Latin word.

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Post by RogerE »

Thanks Andy = andy66 for your comments about Latin abbreviations and modern Italian practice. Yes, because we're used to seeing them frequently used in English, coming from that background it's surprising that they are not normally used in Italian.

____________
.
Alphabets used for numerals
Some cultures have used the same set of written characters for recording the language and for denoting numbers. For speakers of European languages, the most familiar instance is provided by Latin and Roman (Latin!) numerals.

Roman numerals
A vey basic description of this familiar system is provided on the UNRV Roman History website:

Roman numerals are the symbols I, V, X, L, C, D, and M, which represent the numbers 1, 5, 10, 50, 100, 500, and 1,000 respectively.
The quantity and order of these letters determine the value of the final number, meaning that the ancient Romans wrote numbers through a combination of just seven letters!
https://www.unrv.com/culture/romannumerals.php#:~:text=Roman ... 20letters!


A deeper and more informative description is provided in the Wikipedia article at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_numerals
.
Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 9.29.35 pm.png
The details of how the notation is used:
Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 9.32.47 pm.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 10.15.42 pm.png
Not all instances of Roman numerals conform to the "standard" conventions:
Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 9.36.37 pm.png
.
Philatelic usage
Stamps commemorating instances of certain recurring prestigious events, such as Olympic Games,
have often added to the "significance" of the event by recording the series number in Roman numerals.
This practice was often followed on USSR commemoratives, such as this set:
Screen Shot 2022-07-01 at 10.25.50 pm.png
USSR, 1964: Tokyo Olympic Games, imperforate set<br />XVIII = 18th Olympic Games
USSR, 1964: Tokyo Olympic Games, imperforate set
XVIII = 18th Olympic Games
.
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by honza »

Ahoj Roger!

You haven't mentioned the zero (or absence of) in Classical Latin notation.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Hello honza. I suppose the Romans had few occasions where they would want to carve a numeral for zero in stone. But perhaps it was needed for a day at the Colosseum, with a temporary sign on slate, something like

___________
LEONES IV
CHRISTIANI -
__________
.
More seriously, the absence of zero from the Roman numeral system is discussed in the Wikipedia article from which I reproduced several excerpts.
Screen Shot 2022-07-02 at 12.40.37 am.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_numerals#Zero
.
It seems that the concept of "zero" as a number played no part in Roman thought, though nihilnone, nothing was certainly present.

/RogerE :D
Last edited by RogerE on 02 Jul 2022 02:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

What about Fractions in Roman notation?

The Wikipedia article has some interesting information on offer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_numerals#Fractions
.
Screen Shot 2022-07-02 at 1.15.25 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-02 at 1.14.54 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-02 at 1.08.57 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-02 at 1.19.36 am.png
.
Roman Inscriptions of Britain 2196

The reference [46] relating to the use of "S" corresponds to
https://romaninscriptionsofbritain.org/inscriptions/2196
The "S" is the very last character of the inscription:
RIB 2196
RIB 2196
Transliteration:
Screen Shot 2022-07-02 at 1.39.28 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-02 at 1.46.19 am.png
.
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by andy66 »

RogerE wrote: 01 Jul 2022 23:30 Thanks Andy = andy66 for your comments about Latin abbreviations and modern Italian practice. Yes, because we're used to seeing them frequently used in English, coming from that background it's surprising that they are not normally used in Italian.

/RogerE :D
...and there is another important latin abbreviation used in english, at least until 50 years ago, and well known in philately too:
2d.jpg
d. i.e. denarios i.e. pennies :)

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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Thanks for your latest comment Andy = andy66

In fact, the very familiar abbreviations £.s.d. for pre-decimal Sterling currency are abbreviations of three Latin words: Librae, solidi, denarii.
Great Britain, 1929: £1 Postal Union Congress (SG 438; Sc 209)
Great Britain, 1929: £1 Postal Union Congress (SG 438; Sc 209)
.
Librae, solidi, denarii
Here are excerpts from a reader-friendly piece recently written by Ruaidhrí Carroll
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/united-kingdom/articles/wh ... ling-sign/

Screen Shot 2022-07-03 at 10.00.23 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-03 at 9.59.26 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-03 at 9.58.51 am.png
The name of the Italian lira also came from the Latin Libra, and usually appeared as 'L' on currency and stamps.
Kingdom of Italy, 1863: 1 lira, Vittorio Emanuele II, Milan mint<br />[Acknowledgement: currently on eBay]
Kingdom of Italy, 1863: 1 lira, Vittorio Emanuele II, Milan mint
[Acknowledgement: currently on eBay]
.
Usage in the United Kingdom
An informative, detailed description in Wikipedia:
Screen Shot 2022-07-03 at 11.19.29 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-03 at 11.19.54 am.png
Notice board displaying the entry prices for<br /> the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, London, around 1946<br />[Photo: Andreas Praefcke]
Notice board displaying the entry prices for
the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, London, around 1946
[Photo: Andreas Praefcke]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%A3sd
.
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by honza »

Ahoj Roger,

I remember going into a chemist's shop in England some 30 years after decimalisation and seeing a sign 1/3 off and reading it as one shilling and threepence. It took a while to realise it was one third off. It was putting the two digits on a parallel level that threw me.

It was not just Britain and most of its empire of course that used a non-decimal currency. Some other European countries had similar national units until well into the 19th century. Germany changed in 1873, Austro-Hungary in 1857 & Spain in 1868.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Thanks honza. Your 1/3 experience is amusing, at least in retrospect.

That way of writing fractions is on-line notation, as opposed to built-up notation (also called display notation). The on-line notation was especially appreciated by printers, because the built-up notation upsets line spacing (unless a special smaller size fraction is used) and that results in inelegant page layout. Early calculators used the slash (solidus) as the division operator, so entering 12/3 resulted in an output of 4, which can be regarded as writing the improper fraction "twelve-thirds" in conventional lowest terms ;)
Screen Shot 2022-07-03 at 3.32.12 pm.png
https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Fraction.html
.
Well, I would say "2/3" would make a better quip, as the irony is still there but with the credible fraction it likely contains an element of truth as well :)
__________________
.
Thanks for the reminder about non-decimal currencies in Europe less than two centuries ago. In more modern times, stamp collectors can still grapple with non-decimal currencies used on earlier stamps of nations such as India. Paraphrasing slightly:

Decimalisation - Wikipedia
[en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Decimalisation]
.
In India, Pakistan, and other places where a system of 1 rupee = 16 annas = 64 paise = 192 pies
was used, the decimalisation process defines 1 naya paisa = 1⁄100 rupee. [नया naya — new]
India changed ... to decimal currency on 1 April 1957.
Yemen Arab Republic introduced a coinage system
of 1 North Yemeni rial=100 fils in 1974,
replacing the former system of 1 rial = 40 buqsha = 80 halala = 160 zalat.
The country was one of the last to convert its coinage.

.
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

In the Happy Day thread we find this cover:

IMG_20220516_0042.jpg
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=82193&start=14112

The caption added by Puffin is
"East Germany. 1970. FDC. International Fur Auction. Leipzig. Two values from set."


Rauchwarenauktion — a translation challenge?


Compare the following (*)
German
(1)
rauchento smoke
Raucherwarenauktionsmoking goods auction
Raucherwaren — zum Beispiel: Zigaretten, Zigarren, Tabak
smoking goods — for example: cigarettes, cigars, tobacco
.
(2)
Leipziger Rauchwarenhandlung um 1900<br />— Leipzig Fur Business, c.1900
Leipziger Rauchwarenhandlung um 1900
— Leipzig Fur Business, c.1900
Wikipedia (German) wrote:Rauchwaren, österreichisch auch Rauwaren, sind zugerichtete gegerbte, noch nicht zu Pelz verarbeitete Tierfelle. Der Begriff wird insbesondere im Pelzhandel selbst benutzt...

Namensherkunft
Die Bezeichnung Rauchwaren leitet sich von dem Adjektiv „rauch, rauh/rau“ ab, das so viel wie „behaart, zottig“ bedeutet. Der Ausdruck ist in dieser Bedeutung ab dem 16. Jahrhundert nachweisbar, z. B. im Märchen Allerleirauh. In der eigentlichen, damaligen Bedeutung ist Allerleirauh ein aus verschiedenartigen Fellarten zusammengesetztes Pelzteil, das für Pelzfutter und nach außen als Verbrämung genutzt wurde.[1] Krünitz’ Enzyklopädie von 1812 vermerkt unter „Rauch“: „mit Wolle, Haaren oder Federn bewachsen, im Gegensatze zu glatt.“
IMG_20220516_0042.jpg
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rauchwaren

Rauchwaren, also known as Rauwaren in Austria, are prepared, tanned animal skins that have not yet been processed into fur. The term is used in particular in the fur trade itself...

The term Rauchwaren is derived from the adjective "rauch, rauh, rau" which essentially means "hairy, shaggy". The term is found with this meaning from the 16th century, e.g. in the fairy tale Allerleirauh. In that context Allerleirauh is a piece of fur composed of different types of fur, which was used for fur lining and visible trimming. Krünitz’s 1812 Encyclopedia noted under “Rauch”: “covered with wool, hair, or feathers, as opposed to smooth.”


/RogerE :D

(*) Footnote: I was motivated to make this post after checking Google Translate for Rauchwaren:
Screen Shot 2022-07-06 at 7.42.58 pm.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-06 at 7.48.44 pm.png
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Alphabets used for Numerals

This thread has recently included a string of posts about Roman/Latin numerals, beginning at
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=90529&start=1259
Although the "basics" are familiar, I found plenty of unfamiliar details in some of the sources used for these posts. I hope other readers found some interesting new information there too. :D
__________________
.
Next I would like to look at Jewish/Hebrew numerals. Although Israeli stamps and coins use the familiar (Western) Arabic numerals for face values, the dates on coins appear in the notation that uses the Hebrew alphabet.

שֶׁקֶל חָדָשׁ
[sheqel ẖadash]
new shekel/sheqel
Israel, 2016: 1 new shekel (obverse)<br />18mm diameter, 3.5g weight
Israel, 2016: 1 new shekel (obverse)
18mm diameter, 3.5g weight
Israel, 2016: 1 new shekel (reverse)<br />Lily and inscription &quot;Yehud&quot; [Judah] in ancient Hebrew
Israel, 2016: 1 new shekel (reverse)
Lily and inscription "Yehud" [Judah] in ancient Hebrew
.
The date on this coin, issued in 2016 [Gregorian calendar year ("civil calendar")] is
Screen Shot 2022-07-10 at 9.44.48 am.png
התשע''ו5776 [2016]
(anno mundi dating system)


Jewish/Hebrew numerals
Source: Wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_numerals
The system of Hebrew numerals is a quasi-decimal alphabetic numeral system using the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The system was adapted from that of the Greek numerals in the late 2nd century BCE.

The current numeral system is also known as the Hebrew alphabetic numerals to contrast with earlier systems of writing numerals used in classical antiquity. These systems were inherited from usage in the Aramaic and Phoenician scripts, attested from c. 800 BCE in the so-called Samaria ostraca and sometimes known as Hebrew-Aramaic numerals, ultimately derived from the Egyptian Hieratic numerals...

In this system, there is no notation for zero, and the numeric values for individual letters are added together. Each unit (1, 2, ..., 9) is assigned a separate letter, each tens (10, 20, ..., 90) a separate letter, and the first four hundreds (100, 200, 300, 400) a separate letter. The later hundreds (500, 600, 700, 800 and 900) are represented by the sum of two or three letters representing the first four hundreds. To represent numbers from 1,000 to 999,999, the same letters are reused to serve as thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands...
The numerical values are assigned in the exact alphabetic order of the letters in the Hebrew alphabet
The numerical values are assigned in the exact alphabetic order of the letters in the Hebrew alphabet
Example (remember: read from right to left)
התשע''ו
[x1000] ה = 5
400 = ת
300 = ש
70 = ע
6 = ו
—> 5776 = התשע''ו


How are numeral usages distinguished from words?
Wikipedia wrote: Gershayim (resembling a double quote mark) ... are inserted before (to the right of) the last (leftmost) letter to indicate that the sequence of letters represents something other than a word. This is used in the case where a number is represented by two or more Hebrew numerals (e.g., 28 → כ״ח‎‎).

Similarly, a single geresh (resembling a single quote mark) is appended after (to the left of) a single letter to indicate that the letter represents a number rather than a (one-letter) word. This is used in the case where a number is represented by a single Hebrew numeral (e.g. 100 → ק׳‎‎).

Note that geresh and gershayim merely indicate "not a (normal) word." Context usually determines whether they indicate a number or something else (such as an abbreviation).

An alternative method found in old manuscripts and still found on modern-day tombstones is to put a dot above each letter of the number.


Table of modern Israeli coin dates
Coin collectors are aided in dating Israeli coins by the following reference table. (Coins were not issued with every year date, so there are jumps in the table, which only lists dates actually appearing on coins.)
It corresponds to the numerical values of the Hebrew letters, together with the conversion rule
Gregorian year ("civil calendar") = Anno mundi - 3760

Screen Shot 2022-06-10 at 11.06.04 pm.png
Screen Shot 2022-06-10 at 11.07.47 pm.png
http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/Israeli.htm
Screen Shot 2022-06-10 at 11.08.24 pm.png


Notes:

(1) The Jewish year begins at a specific moment in September (in the "civil calendar") so, strictly speaking, the year 5776 AM [anno mundi] is 2015/2016 CE [common era]. We are currently (July 2022) in the Jewish year 5782, that is, 5782 AM. The year began on 8 September 2021, and will end on 25 September 2022.

(2) Anno mundi [Latin] — the year of the world is a Jewish religious chronological system based on the Biblical account of creation of the world.

(3) Key exceptions
Wikipedia wrote:By convention, the numbers 15 and 16 are represented as ט״ו‎‎ (9 + 6) and ט״ז‎‎ (9 + 7), respectively, in order to refrain from using the two-letter combinations י-ה‎‎ (10 + 5) and י-ו‎‎ (10 + 6), which are alternate written forms for the Name of God in everyday writing. In the calendar, this manifests every full moon since all Hebrew months start on a new moon ...

Combinations which would spell out words with negative connotations are sometimes avoided by switching the order of the letters. For instance, 744 which should be written as תשמ״ד‎‎ (meaning "you/it will be destroyed") might instead be written as תשד״מ‎ or תמש״ד‎ (meaning "end to demon").


/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Derbyboi2 »

Veering off at a tangent I was musing this morning on why I was taking out an album and just looking at three particular stamps. I had been involved in a particularly fractious business phone call which went on interminably (actually only 90 minutes) debating evidential rules surrounding allegedly forged signatures to an important contract)

Whilst looking at these three items I was drawn to the opening two sentences of the first stanza of Keat's Endymion.

A thing of beauty is a joy for ever:
Its loveliness increases; it will never
Pass into nothingness; but still will keep
A bower quiet for us, and a sleep
Full of sweet dreams, and health, and quiet breathing.
Therefore, on every morrow, are we wreathing
A flowery band to bind us to the earth,
Spite of despondence, of the inhuman dearth
Of noble natures, of the gloomy days,
Of all the unhealthy and o'er-darkened ways
Made for our searching: yes, in spite of all,
Some shape of beauty moves away the pall
From our dark spirits.

It occurred to me at least how apt the sentiments expressed at the outset of that epic poem reflected my own view of Philately. I see stamps as things of beauty, and the more I look at them the more I lose myself in this concept and my 'dark' mood will immediately lift and 'some shape of beauty moves away the pall from out dark spirits. Interestingly I am engaging with poetry rather than language per se but I wonder whether the sense of wonder of a particular issue or set can be better described. As a matter of interest I attach copies of the three stamps that lifted my spirits!
1P SG85 One Stop.jpg
1p SG99.jpg
1p SG118 Home scan.jpg
SG85, SG99 and SG118 - As beautiful as anything to behold with the shades of Blue and the red-brown, chocolate and Brown Kangaroos......
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Thank you Derbyboi2.

Shakespeare has an insight to share with us:

Beauty is bought by judgement of the eye.
[Shakespeare, Love's Labours Lost
/RogerE
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Derbyboi2 »

Yes Roger, and the 'eye of the beholder' doesn't get a look in.

One of Keat's main thrusts was that if you look at beauty long enough you become beautiful yourself.....

Endymion, in Greek mythology, was loved by the Titan Queen of the moon who persuaded Zeus to give him eternal beauty but also kept him eternally asleep. Myth has it that the goddess visited him in his sleep and as a result he fathered 50 children. The Myth also gave rise to several 'salacious' early to mid-nineteenth century paintings when nudity was acceptable in classical subjects only.

Robert
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Beauty and Narcissus is a link that also comes to mind.


Encyclopedia Britannica has this summary:
Screen Shot 2022-07-12 at 2.05.32 pm.png
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Narcissus-Greek-mythology

Greece, 1958: 2L Narcissus, 2x3 block marginal block
Greece, 1958: 2L Narcissus, 2x3 block marginal block


Since this thread is about Stamps and Languages, let's note
.
Greek
ΕΛΛΑΣΕλλάς
['ellas]
Greece
ΛΕΠΤΑλεπτα
[lepta]
Lepta
ΝΑΡΚΙΣΣΟΣΝάρκισσος
[Narkissos]
Narcissus


In current terminology, Greece is Ελλάδα [Elláda].

Wikipedia wrote:Greece, Ελλάδα, romanized: Elláda, [eˈlaða], officially the Hellenic Republic, is a country in Southeast Europe. It is situated on the southern tip of the Balkans, and is located at the crossroads of Europe, Asia, and Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece
.
Wikipedia wrote:The name of Greece differs in Greek compared with the names used for the country in other languages and cultures, just like the names of the Greeks. The ancient and modern name of the country is Hellas or Hellada (Greek: Ελλάς, Ελλάδα; in polytonic: Ἑλλάς, Ἑλλάδα), and its official name is the Hellenic Republic, Helliniki Dimokratia (Ελληνική Δημοκρατία [eliniˈci ðimokraˈti.a]). In English, however, the country is usually called Greece, which comes from the Latin Graecia (as used by the Romans).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Greece#
.
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Apparently the Cockney Alphabet was a source of popular humour in Australia soon after World War II.

A is for 'orses
(Hay is for horses)
Australia, 2005: &quot;Down on the Farm&quot;, $1 special minisheet, horse and dogs (SG 2563var)
Australia, 2005: "Down on the Farm", $1 special minisheet, horse and dogs (SG 2563var)
There are many alternative 'definitions' offered for each letter, based on the "Cockney Alphabet".

Naming a dog "Deefer" (as was common in the '50s) is an example of the reverse of this phenomenon, based on interpreting the line D for dog in an everyday alphabet verse as "deefer dog".

"Ceefer" as a name for a cat also appeared in Australia after the Second World War (C for cat) influenced by returning servicemen from England who had been exposed to the humour of the Cockney Alphabet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockney_Alphabet

Australia, 1996: maximum card, 45¢ pets — Dog and Cat (SG 1649)
Australia, 1996: maximum card, 45¢ pets — Dog and Cat (SG 1649)
for 'orses
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Chanada »

Nice picture and interesting story.

Is Beefer to be used for beer?
Collecting Canada up to 2000 and world : cats, big cats, geology. And some art and birds :)
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Chanada wrote: 15 Jul 2022 10:04
Cats are always of interest even on wallpapers ;)

RogerE you probably will like this one. In Québec’s French, we sometimes use kétaine (pronunciation ka-ten) to mean kitsch. So those are kétaines kittens :D


Aaahh! The K10 kétaines kittens! (Not the K9 canines!)
Shall we chat about chats‽
Voici les chats — voir ici!

Acknowledgement: group currently on eBay
Acknowledgement: group currently on eBay
Keep your chat out of the gutter — Gardez vos chats hors de la gouttière.
Australia, 2015: 3x5 gutter strip of 70¢ cats<br />Acknowledgement: strip currently on eBay
Australia, 2015: 3x5 gutter strip of 70¢ cats
Acknowledgement: strip currently on eBay
Apologies for this descent into bilingual puns. I plan to ascend again to more significant linguistic topics. ;)

/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Chanada »

« Apologies for this descent into bilingual puns. I plan to ascend again to more significant linguistic topics. ;) »

RogerE, humour can be a really powerful motivator :)
Seriously, puns are very useful, they help me to learn some subtleties of a language.
Collecting Canada up to 2000 and world : cats, big cats, geology. And some art and birds :)
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Merci Chanada! Mercy me! ;)
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Stampboards member manrico, in Spain's Canary Islands, has recently posted this test image of a first day cover:
manrico wrote: 19 Jul 2022 03:36 Una prueba de carga de imagenes

1961 Romanesque Art Exhibition.jpg
Spain, 1961: first day cover, Romanesque artworks
.
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=8892904#p8892904
.
May I add English translations of some Spanish appearing in that post?

Spanish
una pruebaa test [compare English "probe", "prove"]
la cargaload [compare English "cargo"]
una prueba de cargaa download test
la imagen, las imagenesimage(s), picture(s) [compare English "image"]
una prueba de carga de imagenestesting download of images
el día, los díasday(s)
la emisiónemission, issue, broadcast
primer díafirst day [compare English "primary"]
primer día de emisiónfirst day of issue
el consejo de europaCouncil of Europe
exposición arte románicoRomanesque art exhibition
correospost, mail [compare English "carry", "carriage"]
oficina de correospost office
correos electrónicose-mails
.
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Thank you or Thankyou

Australia, 2021: 3x5 gutter strip, $1.10 thank you
Australia, 2021: 3x5 gutter strip, $1.10 thank you


Adding a post in another thread, I hesitated about whether to write thank you or thankyou. I found some relevant helpful commentary and advice in the Future Perfect website, after which I followed the recommended usage "thank you".

May I share that user-friendly advice here?

Screen Shot 2022-07-21 at 10.32.42 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-21 at 10.33.31 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-21 at 10.36.44 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-21 at 10.38.07 am.png
https://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammar-tips/easy-mistakes/ ... -thank-you
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Welsh and the latest QR-coded British stamps.

Thanks to a post by lesbootman, I've just looked at images of the latest set of British country definitives on the Royal Mail website:
https://shop.royalmail.com/2022-country-definitives-presentation-pack?cid=SC0722_JULY_EM_01


The set includes two designs with face values matching First Class and Second Class inland basic postage rates. These caught my attention because they incorporate Welsh and English abbreviations:

Screen Shot 2022-07-21 at 12.35.28 pm.png
Great Britain, 2022: country theme, first class  definitive with QR code<br />Postage rate: cyntaf — first
Great Britain, 2022: country theme, first class definitive with QR code
Postage rate: cyntaf — first
Great Britain, 2022: country theme, second class  definitive with QR code<br />Postage rate: ail — second
Great Britain, 2022: country theme, second class definitive with QR code
Postage rate: ail — second


Welsh numbers — cardinal and ordinal

Cardinal numbers
un, dau, tri, pedwar, pump
chwech, saith, wyth, naw, deg

one, two, three, four, five
six, seven, eight, nine, ten


Ordinal numbers
cyntaf, ail, trydydd, pedwerydd, pumed
chweched, seithfed, wythfed, nawfed, degfed

first, second, third, fourth, fifth
sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth


Welsh heading

Cymru, CymryWales, Welsh
stampiau diffinioldefinitive stamps
un stamp diffiniolone definitive stamp
y postthe mail/the post
post brenhinolroyal mail
stampiau diffiniol y post brenhinolroyal mail definitive stamps


/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

There's always more to learn, and to learn about. :D

Numbers and numerical conventions are a recurring matter of interest for philatelists, not to mention notaphilists [banknote collectors].

In particular, think of the high face values of inflation stamps and banknotes.

RSFSR [Russia], 1922: inflation stamp 22,500r<br />&quot;Workers of all nations unite&quot;
RSFSR [Russia], 1922: inflation stamp 22,500r
"Workers of all nations unite"
Germany, 1923: high value surcharges were required by rampant inflatiion
Germany, 1923: high value surcharges were required by rampant inflatiion
Hungary, 1946: Inflation postage rate for cover to USA, 75000 milpengő.
Hungary, 1946: Inflation postage rate for cover to USA, 75000 milpengő.
Greece, 1948: inflation postage rate for cover to USA, 3400d.
Greece, 1948: inflation postage rate for cover to USA, 3400d.
Zimbabwe, 2008: inflation banknote, 100 trillion dollars (P91)
Zimbabwe, 2008: inflation banknote, 100 trillion dollars (P91)
.
Looking at large numbers, and terminology for them, is a practical matter.

_________________
.


Remember US Senator Everett McKinley Dirksen
Researchers have been unable to track down the quotation most commonly associated with Dirksen. Perhaps he never said it, but the comment would have been entirely in character. Cautioning that federal spending had a way of getting out of control, Dirksen reportedly observed, “A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."

This singularly colorful Senate leader died at the age of 73 on September 7, 1969.
https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Senator_ ... _Dies.htm#


/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Derbyboi2 »

Roger

It is interesting to note that the 100 trillion dollar note was worth all of 40 US cents and now fetches much higher prices on eBay!

The below from CNN shortly after the time of hyper-inflation.

Zimbabwe used to have a Z$100,000,000,000,000 note - one trillion Zimbabwean dollars.
The note, along with previous hyper-inflated denominations including Z$10,000,000,000,000 (ten trillion) and Z$1,000,000,000,000 (one trillion), could be exchanged for U.S. dollars until the end of April 2016, but it was worth only about $0.40. It is fetching significant higher prices as a novelty item on websites such as eBay.
When inflation hit 230,000,000 percent in 2009 , the country's reserve bank -- infamous for its inability to contain sky-high hyperinflation -- declared the U.S. dollar as its official currency.
From excessively high inflation to -2.3% deflation, Mangudya remembers the tough years vividly. "It was so traumatizing," he admitted. "We didn't have the tools to fight the monster that the economy was facing at the time."
The country had to keep printing money. Prices would change by the minute, causing stress revolving around the fluctuations, one of the devastating effects of hyperinflation.
"It was terrible. You'd have to pay for your coffee before you drank it because if you waited the cost would rise within minutes," said businessman Shingi Minyeza, chairman of Vinal Investments.

Robert
Last edited by Derbyboi2 on 23 Jul 2022 16:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Large Numbers in Portuguese (with relevance for English)


Source for the quotes in this post:
https://www.fluentin3months.com/numbers-in-portuguese/
.
English vs American usage
Millions and Billions (Long vs Short Scale Numbers) in Portuguese
You may know that “a billion” used to have a different meaning in British and American English. To Americans, a “billion” meant “one thousand million”, like it does today. In Britain and most other English-speaking countries, a billion meant “one million million” – which today everyone (in the English-speaking world at least) calls a trillion.

Similarly, “a trillion” had its current meaning in the U.S. of “one million million”. Everywhere else it meant “one million million million” — that's a one with a whopping eighteen zeroes afterward.

At some point in the twentieth century, non-Americans gave up and started using “billion” and “trillion” in the American way. (We're still waiting for Americans to return the favour and stop measuring temperature in Fahrenheit.) The “old” way is called the long scale numbering system, while the modern/American way is called the short scale.
.
The Portuguese connection

You may be wondering how any of this is relevant to Portuguese. Well, in many languages they still use the long scale system, in which a billion and a million (actually their cognates in the local language) have twelve and eighteen zeros, respectively. So, for example, in Spanish a billón means 1,000,000,000,000.

Which one does Portuguese use? Well, now it gets even more confusing! Most Portuguese-speaking countries use the long-scale system, with the exception of Brazil.

So um bilhão means “1,000,000,000” in Brazil, but “1,000,000,000,000” in Portugal or Angola.

To add yet another complication, bilhão can alternatively be spelled bilião. The former is more common in Brazil, while the latter is more common in Portugal.

Fun fact: you know how in English we have “a zillion” as a humourous way of saying “a very large number”? In Portuguese you can do the same thing with um zilhão.
From another source (actually favouring Brazilian Portuguese):
Screen Shot 2022-07-23 at 4.23.54 pm.png
https://www.wordsense.eu/bilh%C3%A3o/
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Numbers in Portuguese — the "basic" numbers


The previous post looked at millions and billions in Portuguese.

Here we come down to earth, and consider the numbers from 1 to 100 in Portuguese, thanks again to the Fluent in 3 Months website
https://www.fluentin3months.com/numbers-in-portuguese/

_____________________________
.
Portugal, 1960: 20 escudos banknote (P163), circulated condition (obverse)
Portugal, 1960: 20 escudos banknote (P163), circulated condition (obverse)
Portugal, 1960: 20 escudos banknote (P163), circulated condition (reverse)
Portugal, 1960: 20 escudos banknote (P163), circulated condition (reverse)
Numbers 1-100 in Portuguese
in five stages: 1-10; 11-19; 20-90 by multiples of 10; filling in; finally, 100 and 0


Screen Shot 2022-07-23 at 11.40.29 pm.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-23 at 11.42.49 pm.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-23 at 11.43.42 pm.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-24 at 12.32.38 am.png
.
Portugal, 1980: 50 escudos banknote, AUNC (P174b)
Portugal, 1980: 50 escudos banknote, AUNC (P174b)


Summary listing

Screen Shot 2022-07-24 at 12.45.02 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-24 at 12.50.16 am.png
Note: correcting typos, the first example means "there are twenty-two of us"


Invitation: Currently you can practice counting in Portuguese in he "Wave" thread, where we count up to 100, back to 0, up to 100, etc. Please feel welcome to join us there! :D
The Portuguese wave starts at
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=94268&start=7347
.
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Chanada »

RogerE, this will be helpful with the Wave thread :D
Collecting Canada up to 2000 and world : cats, big cats, geology. And some art and birds :)
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by ASPS_StampIT »

Interesting thread! Well what I do with StampIT is motivate language learners to engage with stamps!!

StampIT's 'Language of Stamps' series uses stamps to learn about the language. I create games for children using stamps which link to language learning. There are currently resources in Spanish, French, Mandarin, Japanese and Gaelic. If interested you can see them all at the website (see my signature).

But back to your topic, yes I've always thought stamps are an excellent medium for learning languages and thus created the strapline for StampIT's language series - 'within stamps lies and entire world of language and culture'.
Sandie, creator of StampIT the youth section of the ASPS with a unique youth programme using games and activities based around stamps to teach other subjects - mainly languages https://scottishphilately.co.uk/moodle/
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Thanks new Stampboards member ASPS_StampIT for the preceding post. It's a great idea to introduce language learners to stamps, as an attractive primary source of instances of the language being used.

I fully endorse your enthusiasm for the way stamp collecting can open up the world for us.
Languages are the key carrier of culture, and acquiring even an introductory acquaintance with a language
inevitably carries with it a degree of understanding and appreciation of the culture of its speakers.

It continually surprises me that many adult stamp collectors shy away from engaging with the languages
on their stamps. History, geography, investigation of the details of subject portrayed, and technical matters about stamp production, are all widely pursued. But the languages on the stamps are often disregarded. That's a missed opportunity. Perhaps it's because "learning" a language is often regarded as a difficult task, and so people turn away from it without thinking about it, or rationalise why they don't choose to engage. That may reflect past experience of classroom formality, of "we have to do this, because it's in the curriculum", of "you are going to be tested/examined on this, so you have to do your homework and put in the effort of learning what's in the book".

Children learn the language(s) spoken by those around them, in an unstructured and informal way. A new word here and there, a new phrase or expression, all without pain or resistance, a natural part of engaging with others and developing friendships. Adults can follow this model too, if only they will stop telling themselves it will be "hard".
__________________
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Here's a quick look at the "front page" of ASPS_StampIT's website.
Screen Shot 2022-07-27 at 1.03.49 pm.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-27 at 1.02.09 pm.png
https://scottishphilately.co.uk/moodle/


Thanks again ASPS_StampIT.

/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Disappearing words — a short ramble ;)

Have you noticed that a word you used to use has apparently disappeared?

That might not be part of the experience of our younger friends, but I think those of us who are "getting on"
might well have noticed that some words from our younger days have dropped out of current usage.

What about those hoary old compounds like wherewithal and heretofore and hereinafter? They probably only survive in legal writings.

What about assistance and construction and development and henceforth? They've been replaced in newspeak by assist as a noun, build as a noun, grow as a transitive verb, and going forward as a clichéd phrase about expectations of a bright new future.

What about the scholarly references such as loc. cit. and ibid. and et al.? Even e.g. and i.e. have become conflated into a short form of "f'rinstance".

Those reflections were motivated by an encounter with the word "repost". In our online and mobile phone universe it seems that the word "repost" has only one known meaning: to post again. Didn't it once mean a rebuttal, a counter-attack, a response answering a disputed claim, or the turning away of an enemy attack? The two words are spelt the same but pronounced differently (heteronyms). In another thread I added a three word quip about this, but I found myself needing to show the pronunciation (with International Phonetic Alphabet = IPA), lest the point be lost entirely.
Repost a repost
/ri'pɔst ə ˈriːpəʊst/
Is there anyone else "out there" familiar with "repost" pronounced /ri'pɔst/, or did I just imagine it‽

/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Aaahh! My problem was a spelling mistake!


Acknowledgement: Oxford Languages
Acknowledgement: Oxford Languages
Acknowledgement: Wikipedia
Acknowledgement: Wikipedia


/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by ASPS_StampIT »

Thanks Roger

Have you also seen the thread about Stamps with more than 4 languages - https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=39437&start=50

Sandie
Sandie, creator of StampIT the youth section of the ASPS with a unique youth programme using games and activities based around stamps to teach other subjects - mainly languages https://scottishphilately.co.uk/moodle/
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Thanks Sandie = ASPS_StampIT. That thread about "quadrilingual" stamps hasn't been active for most of the time I've been a Stampboards member, so I hadn't been paying attention to it.

/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Old Architect »

RogerE wrote: 27 Jul 2022 15:59 Disappearing words — a short ramble ;)

Have you noticed that a word you used to use has apparently disappeared?

That might not be part of the experience of our younger friends, but I think those of us who are "getting on"
might well have noticed that some words from our younger days have dropped out of current usage.

What about those hoary old compounds like wherewithal and heretofore and hereinafter? They probably only survive in legal writings.

What about assistance and construction and development and henceforth? They've been replaced in newspeak by assist as a noun, build as a noun, grow as a transitive verb, and going forward as a clichéd phrase about expectations of a bright new future.

What about the scholarly references such as loc. cit. and ibid. and et al.? Even e.g. and i.e. have become conflated into a short form of "f'rinstance".
......
/RogerE :D
Roger, I use these words in everyday parlance constantly. It's also a professional norm. As architects we "develop & construct (with the) assistance" of others continually. In more scholarly (yes) & everyday notes it's almost impossible to progress without using the I.e., e.g., et al, etc. in a business setting. Perhaps I'm more "provincial" but I find once others read letters of mine, they begin using these "inconveniences" in similar fashion. Language is meant to evolve but, (hopefully) not in the "Blade Runner" sense, becoming a conflation of languages so littered with unintelligible foreign vernacular, that it would become the street speak of the future.

I wouldn't lament the loss of language just yet. Keep writing our "younger friends" in the style you're accustomed to. You may be surprised at the responses!

DOWN WITH ACRONYMS!!
Courtesy is contagious.
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Thank you Old Architect. That makes two of us! /RogerE :D

______________________
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Dictionary users are acquainted with entries in which certain less familiar words are labelled "archaic".
In this way, the evolution of usage is reflected, while some effort is invested in keeping former meanings accessible.
The website Lexico has a nice list of English words/meanings regarded as archaic.

https://www.lexico.com/explore/archaic-words
.
Screen Shot 2022-07-28 at 9.22.47 am.png
Here is the "tip of the iceberg" of that site's list of archaic words:
.
Screen Shot 2022-07-28 at 9.23.17 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-07-28 at 9.23.38 am.png
.
You can read more at the link given earlier.
/RogerE :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by mbg1248 »

That's an interesting list of archaic words. Of course new words move in as others move out, reflecting the dynamics of language. Has there been a comment posted about neoligisms?
https://www.globallanguageservices.co.uk/what-is-a-neologism/
The humorous ones:
https://carmamaths.org/resources/jon/Preprints/Oddments/werds.pdf

This page started with a comment about Hebrew and then proceeded to acronyms. Acronyms are exceedingly common in modern Hebrew and often the acronym becomes a legitimate word !
Two examples:
  • Orange (fruit) - initially תפוח זהב ( Tappuakh zahav - gold apple), its acronym was תפו"ז , then the " was dropped. Now everybody says Tappuz
  • a Report - initially דין וחשבון (Din Ve'Kheshbon - a judgment and accounting), its acronym was דו"ח , then the " was dropped. Now everyone say Doakh. As expected in Hebrew, the verb for "to report" became לדווח (le'Da've'akh)
More examples:
https://tlv1.fm/streetwise-hebrew/2015/10/06/addicted-to-acronyms-streetwise-hebrew/
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Chanada »


Fun to see many coming from French, words that we continue to use like :

accouchement
ambuscade : same meaning but with a e : embuscade
animalcule : rare but sometimes as an insult or tease
appetency : appétance = scientifically used for something that helps making the food more attractive, e.g. for old people or cats ;)
audition
Collecting Canada up to 2000 and world : cats, big cats, geology. And some art and birds :)
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by Old Architect »

Would it be invidious of me to make vituperative comments regarding the iniquitousness of the seemingly recondite acronyms of the current times? Or is my erudition archaic?
Perhaps folks just stopped speaking like this....
Courtesy is contagious.
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Thanks mbg1248 for those nice examples demonstrating that living languages evolve naturally, and often delightfully.

Thanks Chanada for explicitly remarking on the French/English symbiosis.

Thanks Old Architect for old-architect-speaking ;)

Yes, language is rich, and engaging/preserving/contemplating/reflecting/discussing/exploring/sharing are all wonderful ways of enriching and being enriched, of cultivating culture and being enculturated...

Special applause for the written word, for books helping us to transcend time and space...

/RogerE :D

Merriam-Webster says:
enculturation: the process by which an individual learns the traditional content of a culture and assimilates its practices and values.
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

A post in another thread has motivated me to discuss another widely used acronym: CEPT.
Liechtenstein, 1968: CEPT commemorative
Liechtenstein, 1968: CEPT commemorative
Republic of Georgia, 2005: Europa set, 50th anniversary of CEPT
Republic of Georgia, 2005: Europa set, 50th anniversary of CEPT
Screen Shot 2022-07-31 at 2.56.36 pm.png
________________________


What is CEPT ?
.
The acronym is actually French:
CEPT = Conférence européenne des administrations des postes et télécommunications

La Conférence européenne des administrations des postes et télécommunications ou CEPT (en anglais, European Telecommunication Office ou ETO) a été créée le 26 juin 1959 comme entité de coordination entre les organismes des postes et de télécommunications des États européens. Le sigle CEPT est utilisé dans sa forme française dans les autres langues (comme pour l'usage du sigle PTT).
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conf%C3%A9rence_europ%C3%A9enn ... unications


Paraphrased in English version of website:
The European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations (CEPT) was established on June 26, 1959, by nineteen European states in Montreux, Switzerland, as a coordinating body for European state telecommunications and postal organisations. The acronym comes from the French version of its name Conférence européenne des administrations des postes et des télécommunications.

CEPT was responsible for the creation of the European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) in 1988.

CEPT is organised into three main components:

Electronic Communications Committee (ECC) — responsible for radiocommunications and telecommunications matters and formed by the merger of ECTRA (European Committee for Telecommunications Regulatory Affairs) and ERC (European Radiocommunications Committee) in September 2001[1]
The permanent secretariat of the ECC is the European Communications Office (ECO)
European Committee for Postal Regulation (CERP, after the French "Comité européen des régulateurs postaux") — responsible for postal matters
The committee for ITU Policy (Com-ITU) is responsible for organising the co-ordination of CEPT actions for the preparation for and during the course of the ITU activities meetings of the council, Plenipotentiary Conferences, World Telecommunication Development Conferences, World Telecommunication Standardisation Assemblies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Conference_of_Postal_ ... istrations


Member countries, as of March 2019: 48 countries. [2]
Wikipedia wrote: Albania, Andorra, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Serbia, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Vatican City.
The Russian Federation and Belarus memberships were suspended indefinitely on 17 March 2022.
/RogerE :D

Footnote: I searched unsuccessfully online for an explicit statement about the relationship between CEPT and UPU = Universal Postal Union. It seems obvious that CEPT would maintain close working relationships with UPU. If any reader would care to share an authoritative post about this, I would welcome it. :D
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Re: Stamps motivate us to engage with languages

Post by RogerE »

Happy Year of the Tiger :D
.
This post has been motivated by today's Happy Day thread.
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=8926805#p8926805
.
s-l1600-17.jpg
.
Chinese [Mandarin]

Literal name of the year
虎年 [Hǔ nián] — Year of the Tiger

60 year cyclic calendar name of the year
壬寅年 [Rén yín nián] — Water Tiger Year
.
____________________________________________________________

Screen Shot 2022-08-02 at 2.01.33 am.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexagenary_cycle


The traditional [astrological] Chinese 60 year cyclic calendar

The calendar runs through a cycle of 10 Heavenly Stems and a simultaneous cycle of 12 Earthly Branches. The smallest common multiple of 10 and 12 is 60, so the calendar has period 60.

The 10 Heavenly Stems are grouped into adjacent pairs. The five pairs are associated with the 5 Elements.

The 12 Earthly Branches are associated with the twelve animals of the Chinese zodiac.

[rén] is the ninth Heavenly Stem, associated with water,
[yín] is the third Earthly Branch, associated with the tiger.
So 壬寅年 [Rén yín nián] is the water tiger year.

To calculate which year in the 60 year cycle matches the ninth Heavenly Stem and the third Earthly Branch, we need the year Y to be 9 greater than a multiple of 10, and 3 greater than a multiple of 12. [Readers with a mathematical background might notice that this is an instance covered by the Chinese Remainder Theorem.]

Y = 10a + 9 = 12b + 3, so 10a = 3(4b – 2).
Then a is a multiple of 3, and 4b – 2 is a multiple of 10.
The smallest solutions are a = 3, b = 3. Then Y = 39.


The first year of the present cycle of the Chinese calendar was 1984, so the 39th year is 1983 + 39 = 2022.
The last year of the present cycle will be 1983 + 60 = 2043.
The first year of the next cycle will be 1984 + 60 = 2044.

Mnemonic: To remember 1984, recall George Orwell's dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four.


/RogerE :D
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