Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

capetriangle wrote: 17 Jul 2022 04:24 The Pom, Global Administrator

Thanks for the information, I did not realize that scissor-trimmed perfs. were to be expected on these - like some of the U.S. Special Printings, nor their relative scarcity when compared to the Melbourne ones.

It was the jump from £93.50 to £389.88 in the last two seconds which surprised me.

Kindest regards

RIchard

Richard.. not 'expected' but prevalent on many genuine examples.

No-one sane of course bids on anything of real value on eBay other than by a snipe program in last 2 or 3 seconds. :lol:

Even so, it was very cheap, way under what a real auction here would have seen.

Glen
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by capetriangle »

Global Administrator wrote: 17 Jul 2022 04:29
Richard.. not 'expected' but prevalent on many genuine examples.

No-one sane of course bids on anything of real value on eBay other than by a snipe program in last 2 or 3 seconds. :lol:

Even so, it was very cheap, way under what a real auction here would have seen.

Glen

Not sure what the difference between prevalent and expected is.

I have never used a sniping program - I do not have the computer skills - however I now buy virtually nothing from ebay. I happily concede insanity.

Kindest regards

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

You can happily type 12,000 messages here and press SUBMIT, but can't type a $ bid figure into a free snipe program and hit SUBMIT. Gotcha. :idea:

They'll let you vote for Trump yet. :)

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by capetriangle »

Global Administrator wrote: 17 Jul 2022 05:31 You can happily type 12,000 messages here and press SUBMIT, but can't type a $ bid figure into a free snipe program and hit SUBMIT. Gotcha. :idea: Yes, precisely. You may recall that you once criticized me for not being able to find the print button on my computer, I replied saying that it was a perfectly legitimate criticism.

They'll let you vote for Trump yet. :) But I will not, I have never voted for the specific type of orifice, so please no hitting below the belt.

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Kindest regards

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by satsuma »

capetriangle wrote: 17 Jul 2022 04:40
Not sure what the difference between prevalent and expected is.
Prevalent can be thought of as "not unexpected".

So, what's the difference between expected and not unexpected?

Think about a coin toss. You can't expect a head to be face up, but it's not unexpected if it is.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Mark Houston »

Qld 5d.jpg
Qold 2½d.jpg
Qld 1d.jpg

These scarce 1st watermark kangaroos with Brisbane cto cancels pictured, are from blocks of eight retained by the GPO in Brisbane.

The balance of the sheets were returned to the GPO in Melbourne, and then to the archives.

There are only two of the 1d and 2½d known.

They were purchased in pairs, the other two are in the Arthur Gray collection.

Three of the 5d are known.

As noted in previous posts they have trimmed perforations.

A complete collection of Brisbane CTO kangaroos, amongst other scarce CTO's blocks are coming up at a major auction house next month.

A rare opportunity to purchase some Hen's teeth!
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Mark Houston »

Roo block 8.jpg
Roo five bob.jpg
9d Block.jpg
One shilling Block.jpg

Some more scarce blocks coming up at Phoenix auctions mid August.

These are part of my CTO collection which took over twenty years to accumulate, which include a complete collection of Kangaroo Brisbane cancels, some in blocks of four.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by gdmcon »

Nice to see items posted, I would like to see more.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by gregbear61 »

They can be seen here on the Phoenix auction webpage in the 1st Watermark 'roos section.

Some nice philatelic eye candy there:

http://www.phoenixauctions.com.au/cgi-bin/wsPhoenix.sh/viewl ... auction=94
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Phoenix Auctions »

2/- Brown Kangaroo Block of 4 with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
2/- Brown Kangaroo Block of 4 with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
6d Blue Kangaroo Block of 4 with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
6d Blue Kangaroo Block of 4 with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
4d Orange Kangaroo Block of 4 with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
4d Orange Kangaroo Block of 4 with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
3d Olive Die I Kangaroo Block of 4 with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
3d Olive Die I Kangaroo Block of 4 with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
2d Grey Kangaroo Block of 4 with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
2d Grey Kangaroo Block of 4 with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
Some examples of Mark Houston’s Kangaroos in Blocks of 4 with ‘QUEENSLAND’ CTO cancels.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Phoenix Auctions »

£2Black & Rose pair with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
£2Black & Rose pair with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
£1 Brown & Blue with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
£1 Brown & Blue with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
10/- Grey & Pink with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
10/- Grey & Pink with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
5/- Grey & Chrome with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
5/- Grey & Chrome with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
2/- Brown with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
2/- Brown with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
1/- Green pair with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
1/- Green pair with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
9d Deep Violet with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
9d Deep Violet with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
5d Chestnut with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
5d Chestnut with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
2½d Indigo with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
2½d Indigo with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
1d Deep Red with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
1d Deep Red with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO
½d Green with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
½d Green with 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancel.
Other examples of the 'QUEENSLAND' CTO cancels. All forming part of Phoenix Auctions, Auction No.94, 18th August 2022.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by The Pom »

Nice stamps, but you need to sort out your scanner - the yellowish-green line is rather distracting!
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by The Pom »

starling wrote: 08 Aug 2014 19:02
I was a bit confused by this Arms set of 4. They are all CTO Melbourne 24 JE (1960?) and have full, unhinged gum.


Image


However, this scan from Glen from earlier on this page might help explain things?


Image


Though would someone have paid £3/15s for a used Arms set? Or was this from a Presentation Folder?

Thanks.


Scott

There was some discussion of these on P69 of this thread, about halfway down the page.

Has there been any further thought on frequency/value of these?
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

Image



A ton of money back then, but I've handled CTO BLOCKS in the past .. some folks had money to burn!
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by The Pom »

This lot went for US$12.65 on ebay, which seems cheap.
cto.jpg
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

Some brilliant results today Mark. 8-)

This was invoiced for about $A7500 .. amazing .... with no cancel, just a couple of bucks!

Rod Perry will be turning in his grave. :mrgreen:

Image

And this one was invoiced for over double estimate at about $A3,100 -

AUSTRALIA_Kangaroos_-_First_Watermark_.5d_Green_3603723.jpg
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

This 'QUEENSLAND' CTO one was also very strong .. being invoiced way above estimate at over $3,200.

The Dopey Bozic ACSC value is $400. Even dopier ... the 1d above is in ASC at $500 it was invoiced for $7500 - FIFTEEN times full ACSC. :roll: :roll:

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

Global Administrator wrote: 18 Aug 2022 19:49
Some brilliant results today

And this one was invoiced for over double estimate t about $A3,100 -
Image
received_10156240253995663.jpg

My purchase of the right hand stamp a while back of Mark seems a good acquisition. Also bought some nice CTO's Thursday for my collection
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

A pity the pair was split though. So much better seeing a joined pair and of course a block of four is the ultimate with these.

Unusual for the CDS to be inverted isn’t it :?:
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by PhilipAdams »

A question to the experts, with apology if it has been raised before.

The two stamps below were purchased at auction over ten years ago.

The auction description for the first was

CTO with MELBOURNE cds with blank base, DE 3 13 (date not visible, but Type 1 cds with round-top '3').

The auction description for the second was

CTO with MELBOURNE cds with blank base, DE3 13 (data not visible, but Type 2 with flat-top '3').

My question: how do you distinguish a round-top from a flat-top without seeing the date?

Thanks for your help.

==========================
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IMG_20220820_0001.jpg
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IMG_20220820_0002.jpg
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Big Tones »

PhilipAdams wrote: 20 Aug 2022 10:30 A question to the experts, with apology if it has been raised before.

The two stamps below were purchased at auction over ten years ago.

The auction description for the first was

CTO with MELBOURNE cds with blank base, DE 3 13 (date not visible, but Type 1 cds with round-top '3').

The auction description for the second was

CTO with MELBOURNE cds with blank base, DE3 13 (data not visible, but Type 2 with flat-top '3').

My question: how do you distinguish a round-top from a flat-top without seeing the date?

Thanks for your help.
Philip,

I am no expert. However, it seems pretty clear that the D in Dec is visible in each case. One has a rounded top and the other a flat top.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

PhilipAdams wrote: 20 Aug 2022 10:30
My question: how do you distinguish a round-top from a flat-top without seeing the date?

The 2 MELBOURNE cancels are WILDLY different even in singles. One has much fatter, thicker, letters, of a totally different font, and those letters are very close to the fatter outer rim than the usual CTO cds.

Apart from that, they are identical. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mark's good examples were shown earlier on this page -

Mark Houston wrote: 31 Jul 2022 20:54
ImageImage
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Mark Houston »

NSW Stampboards 2.jpg
NSW Stampboards 1.jpg
Thank you Glen and the Stamp Boards Forum for the opportunity to display the stamps I had for sale.

Most of them sold for strong prices and it is a testament to this site that collector's have gained the knowledge to appreciate the scarcity of some CTO issues.

I know that at least one stamp board member was a successful bidder and well done to you.

I have included a couple of pictures of NSW CTO cancels relating to an earlier post that support the idea that there are several sets about.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by admin »

Mark Houston wrote: 21 Aug 2022 20:09
Thank you Glen and the StampBoards Forum for the opportunity to display the stamps I had for sale.

Most of them sold for strong prices, and it is a testament to this site that collector's have gained the knowledge to appreciate the scarcity of some CTO issues.

I know that at least one stampboards member was a successful bidder and well done to you.

Well done for assembling these over the decades Mark, when these were unappreciated mostly. You and Arthur Gray and a few others, were the only ones out there, with a Crystal Ball. :)

PLEASE folks, email the invoice results (add 20% onto hammer price) to Geoff Kellow for his next ACSC updates. The 1d red 'Brisbane' was invoiced for FIFTEEN TIMES the insane current ACSC price, at $7,500. He does not follow auctions too closely, and these real world auction updates then bypass Bozic's dreamy guess levels.

Rod Perry greatly disliked all CTO Roos in ANY form, for some strange reason, and posted that often here, and in the long period when he priced things in ACSC, they stayed crazy low, allowing those with astute eyes to profit. 8-)

Good to see you got good prices Mark. Had you offered these 10 years back, it MIGHT have been 10% of this week's levels. :lol:

Indeed the 1d Block would never have got even $750 at auction then, is my guess.

Could not resist securing this below - someone forgot to mention the 2 x Die 2s, AND the constant 'Arnhem land' variety! :lol: :lol:

Anyone have any idea HOW these strips and blocks ever originated? Have never seen an explanation. Decades before the Miller Brothers.

Glen

AUSTRALIA_Kangaroos_-_First_Watermark_3d_Olive_Die_I-II-I_3603744.jpg
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

admin wrote: 21 Aug 2022 21:02 Rod Perry greatly disliked all CTO Roos in ANY form, for some strange reason, and posted that often here……

A number of years ago I had a long conversation with him over lunch in Port Douglas. Over a few (too many) wines we discussed that very thing. He disliked the “manufactured” aspect of CTO’s as much as he disliked fly speck plate flaws, printing errors, missing colours, etc.

He told me that to him, stamps on cover doing what they were designed to do was his only real philatelic interest but that he understood why collectors were interested in other things.

On a number of occasions I tried to talk him into writing his autobiography, particularly the philatelic aspects of it, but unfortunately this wasn’t to be.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by admin »

Rod had plenty of his views right here on this board. :)

He always hated all INVERTED WATERMARKS too. On any stamps. And he typed so regularly here. :!:

When one sold for $20,000 he declared that totally insane. When it next sold for $40,000 he posted the same thing. 8-) 8-)

Rod had a VERY HEAVY influence into the pricing in all versions of the ACSC. Until VERY recent years.

What he liked - stamps on cover or parcel pieces got heavy pricing treatment, and to that end, our listings are probably the world's best and most detailed, and the hobby owes him great thanks.

What he did not like - official CTO's etc, are now just catching up to reality, as we see above.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

image.jpg
image.jpg
What wonderful children I have. ❤️ Fathers day present from my son Troy major stamp collector and my daughter Paige also stamp collector

6d Engraved Brisbane CTO MH full gum. 2nd one. Only one other one known
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

Those clever kids will hopefully, be able to help you load attachments inline correctly as a late Father' Day gift. (Despite you editing SIXTEEN times!) :lol: :lol:

I assume the excitement, for those lacking clairvoyancy skills, is the 6d Kooka had a BRISBANE CTO cancel?

It clearly does not have the same 3.15pm hour slug as all the catalogued Roos with that cds.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

Global Administrator wrote: 05 Sep 2022 19:30 Those clever kids will hopefully, be able to help you load attachments inline correctly as a late Father' Day gift. (Despite you editing SIXTEEN times!) :lol: :lol:

I assume the excitement, for those lacking clairvoyancy skills, is the 6d Kooka had a BRISBANE CTO cancel?

It clearly does not have the same 3.15pm hour slug as all the catalogued Roos with that cds.

Glen
Honestly Glen I appreciate everything my children do and don't appreciate your sarcasm. We research prior to listing. Here's Mark Houston's copy
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

It is not sarcasm .. it is bog basic common sense - no-one here can read minds about why you post something, and EVERYONE except you seem to be savvy enough to add attachments inline - despite the SIXTEEN (16) edits to your post above!

Despite being asked to, you STILL bumble on - and still not bothering to do so, in the very next post - so some reading just for you -

https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=90770

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by PhilipAdams »

Monogram wrote: 05 Sep 2022 19:25 ImageImageWhat wonderful children I have. ❤️ Fathers day present from my son Troy major stamp collector and my daughter Paige also stamp collector

6d Engraved Brisbane CTO MH full gum. 2nd one. Only one other one known
Always great to hear of younger (= anyone under the age of 60!) taking an interest in stamp collecting.

Enjoy the stamp and enjoy your common family bond.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

The purpose and origin 'Brisbane' CTO's on stamps other than the catalogued 1913 Roos seems rather murky.

There certainly are some full gum blocks about of the KGV WWI era material, and I've sold a few to members here.

The ''OS'' overprint KGVs are an interesting case.

Many of them are about in panes and large blocks, and often with cancels like ADELAIDE and BRISBANE and SYDNEY. Melbourne less so, oddly.


Image

½d Orange KGV I often see in full panes and sheets CTO, and the 3d also especially often. the OVERPRINT 6d OS Roo as well.

No idea of the original source. But in The Great Depression seems odd anyone was buying panes of USED stamps! :mrgreen:

This sheet I sold here for a few $$s a stamp.

Image

Image

Image

Australia OS ½d Orange KGV “BRISBANE” CTO cancel sheet, full gum MUH: One of the super rare pieces of this reign. Fresh, well centred full gum flat MUH. Have NEVER owned one of these cancels on this value until this week, in decades of dealing – much less a SHEET! (Well a full sheet 120 less a Block 4, that the seller retained.)

Sheet has the constant plate flaws on this issue, and overprint errors like “Hollow S”. Also has the full John Ash Imprint - high cat even with the normal CTO cancel. Fresh full gum MUH, 116 stamps, at a few bucks apiece!
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by The Pom »

This Brisbane CTO sold for US$79 on ebay this morning.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Australia-1913-1-Roo-used-with-inverted-watermark-/125502829171

The seller simply described it as "Australia 1913 1/- Roo used with inverted watermark".
bris.jpg
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

'Knowledge Is Power' as I type incessantly.

If these dopes bought an ACSC they'd be $100s ahead of that cost. :idea:
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

AUSTRALIA_Kangaroos_-_First_Watermark_4d_Orange_3603757.jpg
First Watermark Melbourne CTO 4d Orange (Part Monogram)
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

Monogram HOW many times do you need to be asked to add attachments inline by clicking the simple 'PLACE INLINE' button - it IS there for excellent reason - to USE! :lol: :lol: :lol:

All members can edit posts for an hour. :!: :!:
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

Global Administrator wrote: 22 Sep 2022 15:55 Monogram HOW many times do you need to be asked to add attachment inline by clicking the simple 'PLACE INLINE' button - it IS there for excellent reason - to USE! :lol: :lol: :lol:

All members can edit posts for an hour. :!: :!:
Looks like at least one more time Ha Ha Ha
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Browny
Founder Member Joined April 2007
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Browny »

Hi All,
Here's a nice find in a very old Lincoln world album purchased at auction a while ago.
For some reason, all the Australian States material was under Australia, whilst the actual Australia stamps was under Salvador!
For this reason, I think everybody missed it when viewing.

Along with a few CTO roos and dozens of mint stamps on a page, was another page of nice CTO KGV:
CTOpage.jpg
Sometimes we have to be lucky!

Cheers.
Browny
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The Sheriff
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

Very nice. :D

Many of these WWI era albums had only small A5 type pages that took only 30 or so stamps, so if the page for 'Australia' was full they added them only a blank page later on!

I loaded up 5 old albums here today for $70 that some non collector goose had REMOVED all the stamps from and tossed loose into soap boxes etc! No time to peer thru it all.

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=100457

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