Numerical Stamp Grading - will it ever occur outside the USA?

[Global Admin]

always remember that "Grading" is really nothing more than calling out faults.

Everyone can see a well centered stamp. The problem comes from when there are hidden or
undisclosed or outright faked problems (reperf/regum/repairs).

And the far BIGGER problem is when the paid Graders like you at PSE clearly cannot spot all reperfs and regums, and do not mention them, as we see many times above.

So, your entire logic system FAILS.

Even when reperfs are clearly pointed out to you here, you DENY - DENY - DENY. It is right out of your admitted Idol Donald Trump's playbook. 'Nothing is EVER my fault'.

A SAVVY outfit would say - 'yikes - we missed that blooper - we will tear that absurd 99 GRAYDEAD NUMBAARRH MESS up, and refund you the trusting schmuck who we charged for it, and cover any losses you suffered - it is the minimum restitution we should make to you, for OUR unprofessional sloppiness ' - but never seen yet from PSE.

Caj keeps arguing Black is White, and that reperfs and obvious faults 'NEVER' are missed there, on their alleged 'SUPERB' graded stamps even when clearly shown to him. Baloney - READ this thread. You've been caught out endless times.

So all credibility is lost forever.

[The Pom]

I'm well aware of what a "regumm" is. The question is, why did a stamp with what 99.999% of people in the stamp world would regard as a fairly major negative quality metric score 95?

I do understand

It states the regumm on the certificate. Gum is generally not considered in the grade.
It is a "sub category" to which the stamp is categorized (Used, Hinged, Never Hinged)
or in his case regummed/no-gum (regummed stamps are treated as no gum stamps
in grading terms).

So, you could have a stamp which has been regummed and subsequently heavily hinged several times, and still score it 100?

[satsuma]

After 2,500+ posts it's time we realised that the answer to the original question is "not likely"; and that the thread has morphed into a discussion of two other questions:

Is numerical stamp grading working well for collectors in the USA?

I suspect the answer to that is "only some of the time"

And,

Could it be improved by using unadulterated scans on certificates and grading companies owning their mistakes?

And the answer to that is an unequivocal "Yes".

[uncadonego]

Hear hear

[Global Admin]

Could it be improved by using unadulterated scans on certificates and grading companies owning their mistakes?

And the answer to that is an unequivocal "Yes".

Deliberately blurring their images like this Train Wreck below is dopey beyond belief.


Super High Grading this Fugly junk as 'Superb 95 Jumbo' so the spivs and hucksters can then offer it for $US350 is RUINING the system, not cleaning it up. I'd gladly take $10 it I owned it.

https://www.collectorscorner.com/Products/Item.aspx?id=56888482

[psestamp]

.....and, as previously pointed out many times, centering is all they do, really!

Again - Grading is not centering alone.

Is the stamp genuine?
Has it been altered?
Is it correctly identified?
Gum condition?
Faults?

And the - centering

It is like Ford Auto Company.... All they do is put tires on cars.

[norvic]

Caj, back for his quarterly visit.

[satsuma]

There are all sorts of regulatory authorities who examine Ford's compliance with statutory requirements and who can demand satisfaction if the product is not up to scratch.

Grading companies? Just a disclaimer that their opinion cannot be used as the basis of legal liability.

It's like peanuts and watermelons - they both are food plants - but a tad different!

[norvic]

There are all sorts of regulatory authorities who examine Ford's compliance with statutory requirements and who can demand satisfaction if the product is not up to scratch.

Grading companies? Just a disclaimer that their opinion cannot be used as the basis of legal liability.

It's like peanuts and watermelons - they both are food plants - but a tad different!

Yeah, ones tasty and the other is completely tasteless: our chickens like them though when the veg wholesaler throws out damaged ones.

[The Pom]

Again - Grading is not centering alone.

Is the stamp genuine?
Has it been altered?
Is it correctly identified?
Gum condition?
Faults?

And the - centering

On Sun Nov 27, 2022, Caj said:

"Gum is generally not considered in the grade.".

Make your mind up, assuming you have one.

[The Pom]

Caj, back for his quarterly visit.

Yes, I think his nurse only allows him to use his keyboard when he's been good...

[stallzer]

.....and, as previously pointed out many times, centering is all they do, really!

Again - Grading is not centering alone.

Is the stamp genuine?
Has it been altered?
Is it correctly identified?
Gum condition?
Faults?

And the - centering

It is like Ford Auto Company.... All they do is put tires on cars.

Are pulled perfs not faults?

[Global Admin]

Again - Grading is not centering alone.

Is the stamp genuine?
Has it been altered?
Is it correctly identified?
Gum condition?
Faults?

And the - centering

From many examples above, clearly you PSE lot miss re-perforating. And even when HOWLERS are pointed you like this below - you DENY - DENY - DENY.

PSE graded this DOCTORED stamp below as "100 GEM" - the very highest grade possible for any stamp. What a JOKE. But you in your many Froot Loop ramblings on this same thread, state that PSE do NOT NUMBARRH GRAYDEAD re-perforated stamps ''as they are damaged.''

Caj Brejtfus confirmed (on previous page of this thread) that PSE manipulate/alter to make the images of the stamps "as nice as possible" in their certificates.

Unfortunately their image processing "improvements" includes very drastically rounding back perforations, thus hiding reperforation and in some cases making it difficult to even match individual stamps back to their photo certs.

The PSE absolutely SHOULD NOT BE DOING THIS - the reasons should not even need explained.

He claimed all certification bodies do this - this is absolutely not true.

I cannot emphasise enough just how important it is that Expert Certificates SHOULD NOT USE MANIPULATED PHOTO IMAGES

The cowboys at PSE graded this clearly reperforated stamp below as "100 GEM" - no finer copy exists. Allegedly. I'd sell it at $2 as a re-perf.

Even after this screaming clanger re-perf was pointed out repeatedly, they refuse to agree they goofed.

PSE seem to have totally lost the plot. Well Caj certainly has, but no news there!

Little wonder PSE deliberately want to blur and Photoshop their images as Caj cheerfully assures us they do, as do "ALL other Expertisation bodies" he blurts out. Who of COURSE do not. Another childish lie from Caj and PSE. Facts and Las Vegas are strange bedfellows.

be aware that ALL EXPERT COMPANIES smooth the images to remove anomalies and clean the image for the certificate...... This may be why the image you see might look reperforated....

You are totally clueless Caj and prove it EVERY post. Well done. That is a tough act to follow.

So you now move on from your Brain Fart wild statement that "SANLEY GIBBONS" show "80" Graded numerical images in their catalogues, after it was easily proven to be total baloney - like most of your statements here. No-one outside the USA uses or cares about made up silly NUMBAAAHS Caj - Gibbons most especially.

So now you invent this Loopy fiction that ALL stamp Expertisers photoshop and retouch and manipulate the images they use on Certificates? Do the characters in Las Vegas who presumably PAY you (unless you work free as their Entertainment - the in house Court Jester or Fool?) know of this new wacko thought bubble you are posting globally on their behalf?

You clearly cannot spell, and you certainly cannot read an SG, and you cannot pick a re-perf even when they are pointed out to you by many here. But you claim to be PRESIDENT of some second tier stamp dealer body there? Gawd help them. Is Elvis Presley a member?

This image below was not taken by PSE, but the Auction house selling this mis-graded DOCTORED stamp.

The entire stamp world can see it has been crudely re-perforated along the top - except Caj Brejtfus it seems. And YOU charge suckers money to get told if their stamps are DOCTORED?? Talk about the Blind leading the Blind.

PSE graded this DOCTORED stamp below as "100 GEM" - the very highest grade possible for any stamp. What a JOKE. But you in your many Froot Loop ramblings on this same thread, state that PSE do NOT NUMBARRH GRAYDEAD re-perforated stamps ''as they are damaged.''

No-one can make his stuff up. Do YOU take the "out"and admit you screwed up - no way - you DENY, DENY, DENY. Didn't work for Trump, and it has not worked for you. As like Trump, everyone else around you, is way smarter.

''Re-perforated at top''? What would you dumb ozzies know about that stuff? SUPERB in our book. Texas Oil Man Investment GRAYDEAD.

[The Pom]

More PSE excellence. Presumably, the PS stands for "Partially sighted", since they failed to comment on the perfs at top.....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384546391891

[psestamp]

Caj, back for his quarterly visit.

Ya - I am mostly on Twitter.
I visit here just to see what is going on in Australia.

Just FYI - on Twitter at @StampShowHereToday

[Global Admin]

I visit here just to see what is going on in Australia.

Having bad eyesight and lack of attention to detail we know is a hallmark of 'Professional Stamp Expertising' - PSE, but a little hint caj .. near all the comments on this long page are NOT from Australians.

They are from the UK, USA, Canada and New Zealand.

That is your problem. No-one globally in general cares or believes in your wacky numbarrhhhs.

PSE is just seen as a totally inconsistent Las Vegas money grabbing factory by many.

People are paying you to spot reperforating, and perfect centering and bad perfs - but as you cannot, endless times, that is WHY NUMBARRRH GRAYDEAD is becoming another loopy yesterday's American Fad. No-one now cares outside the Texas Oilmen who have more money than sense.

Great for the hucksters taking 1930s 10c retail stamps, paying you $25 to call them '100 JUMBO' and then asking $500, but even that Bunny Market has dried up.

Let me remind Caj that THIS thread was started FIFTEEN years back - by a CANADIAN, who asked -

A recent editorial in Canadian Stamp News stated the numerical grading would become the standard grading system in the not-too-distant future. I'm doing this from memory, but I think it went on to say there would be no need for collectors to examine stamps anymore.

They would be graded by a certified agent and sealed in a clear holder for posterity. I know this is just some philatelic futurist's fantasy, but does anyone think there is a reasonable use for number-grading

[Global Admin]

Also FIFTEEN years ago, I highlighted this Cargo Cult that was occurring then - 6000 times full Scott for a packet material junk stamp worth 10c globally then.

Pure American Barnum and Bailey HUCKSTERISM. I called it as a passing fad then, and have been proven correct.

From my recent "Stamp News' column - this very common stamp just sold at public auction for 6,000 times full Scott catalogue value - ONLY because it was graded 100:

https://www.glenstephens.com/snmarch07.html


Sold for 6,037 times Scott Catalogue

Our American cousins often do strange things with their money.

In recent times they are paying quite insane amounts of money for incredibly common stamps that are very well centred.

The 1934 3¢ Mt. Rainier stamp illustrated nearby - Scott 742 was one that caught my eye. The Scott catalogue value for mint unhinged on this stamp in "very fine" centering MUH is 20c. That frankly is what I'd sell it for.

Indeed, I sell these things at or under face value in 1930's full sheet job lots - as do most other dealers, as they are very plentiful. Many possess quite excellent centering and appearance.

Scott has 20¢ as a MINIMUM book value on any stamp - not to reflect its actual worth, but as a dealer "handling charge" in effect.

This stamp just sold at public auction for $US1,050 plus the ubiquitous 15% "buyer fee" = $US1,207.50. The kind of money that I just sold a reasonable mint 1913 £1 Kangaroo at.

That is 6,037 times full Scott value. For an exceedingly common stamp of which over 95 MILLION were sold. Clearly many THOUSANDS of identical copies exist - simply as no-one has (yet) bothered getting numerical grading Certs done on them!

The stamp was graded 100 out of 100. I certainly would not give it anything like a perfect grade, as I personally hate "hang-nail" corner perfs like this has at top right. In fact 3 of the corners I do not really like.

They visually detract from a "perfect" looking stamp. Well formed corners most certainly DO exist on perfect centred stamps. THEY might get a 100 score. But this one could most certainly be improved upon very readily.

The folks writing these Certs need to rapidly get a grip on reality. A "100/100" score indicates no finer copy can exist. With this copy I'd disagree with them most strongly. Thousands of copies would look better than this example. So how on earth did it get a perfect "100" score?

PSE appear to place no importance whatever on ugly, short or untidy looking perfs or corners in its "eye appeal" descriptor.

That in my view is a fatal flaw in their numerical grading system, if it is ever to be taken seriously on a global stage, and not become a laughing stock - www.psestamp.com/eyeappeal.chtml

In 10 years time will the buyer of this stamp, or the buyer of my similar priced £1 Roo, or 3 of the USA 1847 5¢ imperf classics below be better off financially? The answer to that question dear reader, I will bet my house on.

For anyone seeking more information on where such unsustainable prices for common stamps will most certainly end up, please google the words "Dutch Tulip Boom."

To perfectly illustrate my point, the very same auction sale offered a most attractive, 4 very wide margin lightly used copy of the USA 1847 5¢ Ben Franklin imperf.

Scott 1B with 2006 PSE Certificate - no thins or repairs. It sold for $US350 plus fee on a Scott value of $US850. THREE of those for $1,050 plus fee, or the one 3¢ violet above for the same price - absolutely NO contest for a wise buyer.

In writing, I publicly bet my house 15 years back, that the moron who spent $A1,800 at public auction on this VERY COMMON packet material junk would lose their shirt.

I clearly was correct.

[norvic]

On another forum, there is a discussion about another aspect of PSE's activities.

These are two of the images under discussion.

USA Airmail, Scott C27 before and after fake cancel applied.

USA Airmail, Scott C17 before and after fake cancel applied.

For some reason the earlier certificates for the uncancelled stamps are no longer on the PSE database.

There are other examples and opinion is that all the cancels are applied by the same device.

I believe some of the images came from a sales site, maybe eBay, and I have asked for details of the seller.

[satsuma]

On another forum, there is a discussion about another aspect of PSE's activities.
...
For some reason the earlier certificates for the uncancelled stamps are no longer on the PSE database.
...
There are other examples and opinion is that all the cancels are applied by the same device.
....

Are the other examples you quote also missing the earlier certificate from the PSE database?

[norvic]

On another forum, there is a discussion about another aspect of PSE's activities.
...
For some reason the earlier certificates for the uncancelled stamps are no longer on the PSE database.
...
There are other examples and opinion is that all the cancels are applied by the same device.
....

Are the other examples you quote also missing the earlier certificate from the PSE database?

I believe so, I am trying to get more information.

[admin]

Wow. Never stand between any American and a pot of money.

Can others check if PSE have removed the mint images and certs from their website?

I cannot see WHERE to look up past Certs on their site - which as I recall was once the case?

IF these numbers are missing, it would imply PSE are behind this fraud?

[ViccyVFU]

Wow. Never stand between any American and a pot of money.

Can others check if PSE have removed the mint images and certs from their website?

I cannot see WHERE to look up past Certs on their site - which as I recall was once the case?

IF these numbers are missing, it would imply PSE are behind this fraud?

One cert has been "updated" on the site, the other taken down

Given the low population densities of Fine Used (Adding 4x value, in one case), you can see why someone "might be tempted".

Of course "Genuine used" is actually still technically possible, if you whacked them on an envelope, and sent them through the mail. (These are trivially inexpensive stamps as hinged mint variants).

You thus have a false real expired certificate in circulation, a false real certificate of fakery out there too, and updated annulled one in the registry, and another that's been pulled.......

I caught up with the PSE Representative in Kazakstan, who assures me "its all good".

[Global Admin]

On another forum, there is a discussion about another aspect of PSE's activities.




For some reason the earlier certificates for the uncancelled stamps are no longer on the PSE database.

There are other examples and opinion is that all the cancels are applied by the same device.

I still cannot see where to input a PSE past cert on their website. Can someone please point me in the right direction?

So the mint one has 'disappeared' for pretty obvious reasons from their data base, and the fake used stamp 'Certificate' does not mention the cancel is fake??

PSE new wording saying - 'It is genuine used' clearly is a lie.

If many stamps are being certified by them with the exact same fake cancel as alleged, a Blind Nun in there should be able to spot that.

There is no question whatever, that these are the SAME stamps.

[norvic]

Ya - I am mostly on Twitter.
I visit here just to see what is going on in Australia.

Just FYI - on Twitter at @StampShowHereToday

You just can't find the truth can you. Twitter handle is @CBrejtfus

[banknoteguy]

This does not make much sense to me. The value of these two stamps in "Superb" condition is considerably less used than Mint Never Hinged. See the the rows below from the 2022 Scott Value by grade. I don't see how anyone except maybe PSE makes any money here.

Scott Values by Grade (2022) for C17, C27

[ViccyVFU]

I still cannot see where to input a PSE past cert on their website. Can someone please point me in the right direction?

http://psestamp.com/

[Global Admin]

Thanks - Got it -- their page does not show the RH table when I opened it in my normal Firefox default setting .. all good now.

OK -- looks to me like some deliberate FRAUD of some kind is going on here at PSE? There can be no other term surely? Does anyone disagree?

The MINT 2015 Certificate 01295088 has now been totally removed from their database - and that of course only can be done by PSE.

Why? As PSE gave the SAME stamp with a clearly forged cancel, a new Certificate 01353685 'as genuine used'.

[mozzerb]

This does not make much sense to me. The value of these two stamps in "Superb" condition is considerably less used than Mint Never Hinged. See the the rows below from the 2022 Scott Value by grade. I don't see how anyone except maybe PSE makes any money here.

Presumably a side effect of the "graded population" thing. If there are far fewer used examples of these stamps submitted for grading than mint ones (as seems likely), the population figure for any particular grade in the PSE "census" will be correspondingly lower, and the price attached to it correspondingly higher. These were "OG" not "NH" stamps by the look of it, so washing the gum and hinge remnant off and making them "used" is worthwhile.

As has been pointed out numerous times, this is all complete madness of course as these are common stamps mint or used. But it's admittedly a novel twist that it's worth faking cancels on stamps catalogued at a few dollars or less -- a possibility that wouldn't naturally occur to anyone not steeped in grading culture.

[Global Admin]

Looks like they might need to re-write their website - 'An Opinion You Can Trust' - to 'We cannot even tell mint from forged used' - but for a fee we will re-write history, and totally delete older Certs when we recertify totally forged cancels, on mint stamps we previously certified as mint. We do all this Flim Flam with total INTEGRITY.

'TRUST US - WE ARE BASED IN LAS VEGAS - AND CAJ IS OUR OFFICIAL MEDIA MOUTHPIECE IN THE MONTHS WHEN HE IS NOT RUNNING FOR US PRESIDENT HE ADVISES US.'

http://psestamp.com/about.chtml

[ViccyVFU]

OK -- looks to me like some deliberate FRAUD of some kind is going on here at PSE? There can be no other term surely? Does anyone disagree?

The MINT 2015 Certificate 01295088 has now been totally removed from their database - and that of course only can be done by PSE.

Why? As PSE gave the SAME stamp with a clearly forged cancel, a new Certificate 01353685 'as genuine used'.

[/centre]

What are you implying, Sheriff ? ...

Revised Advertisement

Remember that EVERY Certificate is issued on behalf of "an Expert Committee", who have reviewed all the details and given their support to its issuance.

I mean, yes, a few of them are dead, but never let inconvenient details get in the way of a quick buck.

[steevh]

This does not make much sense to me. The value of these two stamps in "Superb" condition is considerably less used than Mint Never Hinged. See the the rows below from the 2022 Scott Value by grade. I don't see how anyone except maybe PSE makes any money here.

It doesnt make sense because you've highlighted the wrong column. Look at the values in the column for condition 95-XF, which is the grade assigned by PSE for this/these stamp(s), for mint hinged ($22.5) vs used ($75).

[Global Admin]

OK -- looks to me like some deliberate FRAUD of some kind is going on here at PSE? There can be no other term surely? Does anyone disagree?

The MINT 2015 Certificate 01295088 has now been totally removed from their database - and that of course only can be done by PSE.

Why? As PSE gave the SAME stamp with a clearly forged cancel, a new Certificate 01353685 'as genuine used'.

[/centre]

What are you implying, Sheriff ? ...

Revised Advertisement

Remember that EVERY Certificate is issued on behalf of "an Expert Committee", who have reviewed all the details and given their support to its issuance.

I mean, yes, a few of them are dead, but never let inconvenient details get in the way of a quick buck.

It is Las Vegas, America after all. The worrying bit is that PSE as far as I know, is a member of the ASDA in New York.

[ViccyVFU]

This does not make much sense to me. The value of these two stamps in "Superb" condition is considerably less used than Mint Never Hinged. See the the rows below from the 2022 Scott Value by grade. I don't see how anyone except maybe PSE makes any money here.

Presumably a side effect of the "graded population" thing. If there are far fewer used examples of these stamps submitted for grading than mint ones (as seems likely), the population figure for any particular grade in the PSE "census" will be correspondingly lower, and the price attached to it correspondingly higher. These were "OG" not "NH" stamps by the look of it, so washing the gum and hinge remnant off and making them "used" is worthwhile.

As has been pointed out numerous times, this is all complete madness of course as these are common stamps mint or used. But it's admittedly a novel twist that it's worth faking cancels on stamps catalogued at a few dollars or less -- a possibility that wouldn't naturally occur to anyone not steeped in grading culture.

Its also worth noting
The C17 has a population differential of 43:2 (about 21 to 1)between the two grades, making the VFU "a hens tooth".
The C27 is even worse, at 136:4, (almost 35 to 1) making it "a hens gold filling"


PSE don't publish population prices for the C27,
but even your chart shows a steep price difference for the two grades of the C17

With such small populations for fine used, and "even less higher in the registry", its not surprising that these carbuncles easily tap into mid budget collectors "F.O.L.O." (Fear of losing out).

Its only $100 to them, but I wouldn't want to be left sitting next to one on a 13 hour flight.

[mozzerb]

I don't actually have a problem with PSE removing the original certificates -- after all, the stamps no longer exist in the condition (unused) they were certified as. Withdrawing a wrong certificate is also what other expertisers do -- if you're looking up a certificate, you don't want to see one that says the stamp is OK when it isn't.

What is dodgy is updating the wrong certificate with a new opinion under the same number and original date. If you're going to withdraw the old certificate, replace it with a brand new one with the current date, ideally with a note to explain the previous history.

[Global Admin]

I don't actually have a problem with PSE removing the original certificates ... Withdrawing a wrong certificate is also what other expertisers do

Can you post here even ONE example of stamps the BPA or RPSL or Philatelic Foundation and APS have certified as mint unhinged, that they have soon after, then re-certified as 'genuine used', when a totally forged cancel has been added to it using a Walmart $2 water based ink pad. And then removed the original cert from their data base.

Of course you cannot. What an absurd 'argument' - even from you.

[ViccyVFU]

I don't actually have a problem with PSE removing the original certificates -- after all, the stamps no longer exist in the condition (unused) they were certified as. Withdrawing a wrong certificate is also what other expertisers do -- if you're looking up a certificate, you don't want to see one that says the stamp is OK when it isn't.

What is dodgy is updating the wrong certificate with a new opinion under the same number and original date. If you're going to withdraw the old certificate, replace it with a brand new one with the current date, ideally with a note to explain the previous history.

Once you publish certificates to a database, what people want to see is "the current status of THAT certificate".

In this case, when people enquire using the original handle, it should say something like "Certificate withdrawn" or "Certificate withdrawn on re-examination, new certificate issued is xxxxxxxxxx" (with a link to it).

This smoke and mirrors, where you have a certificate in front of you, and can't validate it ("no record found") rather negates the usefulness of a certificate registry.

All bodies get them wrong, that's just reality.

Some stubbornly insist "they are right", despite having "no expertise in that area".

What is a particular pain is that once a certificate has been issued "by a competent body", then other official bodies (like the PTS) take that as "fait accompli", irrespective its not been issued by a body YOU regard as competent, and you can "whistle for a refund" in any dispute.

Its why these bodies are dying out, as digital philatelists "keep calling out the errors, and nothing really changes".

[norvic]

I've posted this here for a wider audience than on Delphi, and because I know Cal comes here. (I've also tweeted to him to suggests he pops back, though he may run away quickly if he does!)

My contact has written:

I’m currently not putting the name of the person who made these on any posts. PSE knows who it is and they may even say so if asked. US date format is month/day/year.

These fakes are just a few of the lower value stamps involved. The quantity of stamps involved is quite high and there are higher value stamps involved. Think of a currency counterfeiter, would they make printing plates and the run off a half dozen bills?

He's keen to find even more examples than he has so if anybody does find any others do let me know and I'll pass it on.

[Global Admin]

In this case, when people enquire using the original handle, it should say something like "Certificate withdrawn" or "Certificate withdrawn on re-examination, new certificate issued is xxxxxxxxxx" (with a link to it).

In this case I doubt PSE are going to own up they Certified a stamp as MINT, and a couple of years later gave it a 'genuine used' cert after a rather crude rubber stamp 'cancel' was added to it! (And many others we are advised)

I cannot see them stating, when you type in certificate 01395088 - '

'We have done a new GRAYDEAD certificate for this stamp so we can make twice the fees. That is our sole aim in Life until we close the doors to lack of business. We have totally abandoned plastic stamp slabbing as even Americans decided that was just too loopy. This one had a fake cancel added to a mint stamp, and was re-submitted as used. We have cheerfully re-GRAYDEAD this worthless turkey as '95 GENUINE USED' and charged another fee.

To cover our tracks we have deleted the mint listing - indicating we know full well what shenanigans are going on with this stamp. if you want to add a fake perfin to this stamp we will issue another new cert and totally delete this last one. if you want to glue it onto an envelope we will do yet another New Certificate 'on cover use is genuine' and delete all others. 'HONESTY AND INTEGRITY' is our Stated Motto. Making money from Bunnies is our passion. Resubmit anything you want. At a fee. Welcome to Las Vegas. CAJ is our appointed PR Man - that tells you everything.'

[Global Admin]

Seems this double dipping by PSE is pretty widespread.

Not all boards are as well funded (by me!) as stampboards is, to allow large size images, but even these 2 smaller sized images are clearly the exact same stamps - with the exact same fake cancel -

[ViccyVFU]

My contact has written:

I’m currently not putting the name of the person who made these on any posts. PSE knows who it is and they may even say so if asked. US date format is month/day/year.

These fakes are just a few of the lower value stamps involved.

He's keen to find even more examples than he has so if anybody does find any others do let me know and I'll pass it on.

What Caj should do from here (if PSE wish to remain credible / part of an accredited body) is "a full and thorough investigation into this submitter / gang".

They have all the information at their fingertips, and should publish "a complete" findings report, including serial numbers (and count numbers) of the certificates they have cancelled arising from it.

Their credibility is blown, as an accreditor, for me..... I trust neither their ability to detect forgeries (/ fakery and reperfs), nor their ability to use their own grading system "to arrive at objective grades".

Scam upon scam.

Lets just hope no major auction house (that uses them, to bolster their realisations) "were a part of it".

[ViccyVFU]

In this case, when people enquire using the original handle, it should say something like "Certificate withdrawn" or "Certificate withdrawn on re-examination, new certificate issued is xxxxxxxxxx" (with a link to it).

In this case I doubt PSE are going to own up they Certified a stamp as MINT, and a couple of years later gave it a 'genuine used' cert after a rather crude rubber stamp 'cancel' was added to it! (And many others we are advised)

I cannot see them stating, when you type in certificate 01395088 - '

'We have done a new GRAYDEAD certificate for this stamp so we can make twice the fees. That is our sole aim in Life until we close the doors to lack of business. We have totally abandoned plastic stamp slabbing as even Americans decided that was just too loopy. This one had a fake cancel added to a mint stamp, and was re-submitted as used. We have cheerfully re-GRAYDEAD this worthless turkey as '95 GENUINE USED' and charged another fee.

To cover our tracks we have deleted the mint listing - indicating we know full well what shenanigans are going on with this stamp. if you want to add a fake perfin to this stamp we will issue another new cert and totally delete this last one. if you want to glue it onto an envelope we will do yet another New Certificate 'on cover use is genuine' and delete all others. 'HONESTY AND INTEGRITY' is our Stated Motto. Making money from Bunnies is our passion. Resubmit anything you want. At a fee. Welcome to Las Vegas. CAJ is our appointed PR Man - that tells you everything.'

Much though I appreciate the humour (and the implausibility of Caj being helpful in his guidance ), for the purposes of validation by an eager bunny, they only need the word CANCELLED and a cross reference to anything subsequent.

The army that watches them can file the reports (maybe on a public server), so that they can action and weed out the fakes "per their original mission".

In this case, that would have lead to the "mint with fake cancellation" certificate.
Which is a result for the bunny (assuming they have two brain cells).

[Global Admin]

Which is a result for the bunny (assuming they have two brain cells).

Let's face it these cretins paying $100s for common 5c retail stamps clearly do not even posses one brain cell!

Most are probably also holding Crypto investments.

They are all taking part in the American Gold Medal sport -- 'see how much you can screw the next guy.'

[Bill H UK]

This is all completely nuts to me, and fortunately well out of my collecting range, but, as a slight side issue:

If a MNH C17 is graded '95', which is XF-SUP, it's worth $250. If it's graded just 3 %age points higher (ie SUP), it's worth $850!!!
An extra $200 per point!
That's just insane. And that's Scott, not PSE - but it shows where the 'push' is coming from for PSE gradings.
Could any of us here honestly see the difference between a 95 and a 98? What are these 'points' which cost $200 each?
No normal person could see the difference, which, presumably, is where the likes of PSE come in.....

[ViccyVFU]

Just on population growth alone, that would now be down to "every 9 seconds"!!

[satsuma]

Perhaps PSE should reinvent themselves as weather forecasters.

They'd probably get it right about as often as they do grading; but there's a much more believable list of reasons when they don't.

[32_seeker]

The keen-eyed detectives who spotted and exposed this fraud deserve a big thanks.

Very clever of the forgers to use a machine cancel, common as dirt and in use for decades, to evade detection.

All of the US expertisers probably missed the fraud in real time, not just the PSE.

The lure of big profits, fueled by the hyped Stamp Market Quarterly and firms like the PSE who support the market by keeping "statistics", is the only possible motivation here.

The population of gem-quality 20th century mint US exceeds demand - by a lot - so I guess it is no surprise that sellers are finding creative ways to sell it.

[ViccyVFU]

Hmmm, once you start doubting them, it makes a load more sense....

This is probably an earlier one, (spotted by the Sheriff in 2018)

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=5532230#p5532230

[Global Admin]

Yes FIVE years they trotted out this $1 retail stamp as the 'Holy Grail' -

As PSE gave this unremarkable stamp the VERY highest grading they have given to any #291 stamp.

You CANNOT even begin to grade this stamp as anywhere near perfection. No-one sane could.

The system is broken, and the lemmings paying well over 100 times Scott catalogue for things like this will be sobbing copious tears of dollar bills down the track.

Mark my words.

Glen

"1c Trans-Mississippi (285). Outstanding centering with Jumbo margins, bright shade on fresh paper, light wavy-line machine cancel, Extremely Fine Gem, an absolutely superb used example of the 1c Trans-Mississippi, with 2011 P.F. and 2007 P.S.E. certificates (Superb 98 Jumbo, unpriced in SMQ above the grade of 98, SMQ $830.00 as 98), this is the highest grade awarded and it is shared by no others"

https://www.stampboards.com/images/stampauctionnetwork/y/y103249.cfm

[ViccyVFU]

I did start looking for others, and found, rather conveniently, they all seem to be in submitted batches of 20, interdispersed with a few red herrings ....

At least someone must be reading these posts, as the original certificates for virtually all the items "appear to have been taken down".

But we still know these are (mostly) forgeries.

PSE should name and shame, if they can distance themselves from this scandal, but the fact remains "every certificate was purportedly signed off and reviewed by a committee".

So long, PSE. (Any pleasure has been all yours).

[Global Admin]

But we still know these are (mostly) forgeries.

PSE should name and shame, if they can distance themselves from this scandal, but the fact remains "every certificate was purportedly signed off and reviewed by a committee".

So long, PSE. (Any pleasure has been all yours).

Well researched.

So it appears PSE - 'Professional Stamp Experts' (sic) has been enthusiastically embracing an active Forgery Factory, and making very good money by doing so?

And actively covering their tracks deleting all original Certs from when these stamps were graded as MINT? And not having the brains to spot the same fake machine cancel zinco or rubber stamp used on a bunch of new submissions, where USED copies sell for more than MINT via their loopy SMQ GRAYDEAD Population Census.

They are all penny retail stamps in the real world, except to the ever decreasing number of Lemmings who follow this failed fad.

A cynical observer might remark that someone PAYING money to get cheap penny retail stamps graded as Mint, and then allegedly paying again to get them GRAYDEAD as 'genuine used' by the alleged PSE 'Experts' (some of whom are deceased!) seems incredibly curious. Indeed, SOME might even point to this being an 'inside job' via a staffer(s) who pays little or nothing for PSE Certs? Especially seeing the Mint certs are then calmly deleted internally by someone at PSE to hide evidence of the Monkey Business.