Unidentified or unknown Australia First Day Cover makers

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The Pom
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Unidentified or unknown Australia First Day Cover makers

Post by The Pom »

No idea if there are any specialist Australian First Day Cover collectors amongst us, but here goes anyway....

The Australian pre-decimal FDC's were produced by something like 100+ different cachet makers (I have examples from around 70).

Many have no form of identification. Even into the Decimal era many private makers existed.

Some are quite rare.

Got any you'd like to know the maker of? Post them here and we'll do our best!

Here's one to get you going. I know who it's by, do you?

Image
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Post by GlenStephens »

Am I allowed to cheat and look up Michael Moore's Catalogue? ;)
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Post by The Pom »

You can try, I don't think he's covered this maker!
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Post by GlenStephens »

You mean I have a 3 inch high stack of his FDC books and it is NOT in there??!!
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Post by The Pom »

Not as far as I'm aware.
Here's another, easier one for you:
Image
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Post by baroldsan »

Image

This is one in my collection that I rather like. Please explain cryptic references above.
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Post by ozstamps »

That Forrest is often seen - The Pom's are not. :D

A mystery area of Aust stamps.

If Frank Pauer ever got his cat out it would not be .. but that is stalled! :twisted:
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Post by The Pom »

baroldsan wrote:
This is one in my collection that I rather like. Please explain cryptic references above.
This is by "Wide World" covers, and is very common. Comes in several colour combinations.
What do you mean by the "cryptic" references? The scan you have attached is a basic summary of his life, but I can't see anything cryptic in it :?
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Post by baroldsan »

Sorry I was really asking what you meant about other makers. I am unsure if I have the drift of your message.
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Post by The Pom »

baroldsan wrote:Sorry I was really asking what you meant about other makers. I am unsure if I have the drift of your message.
Ah, I see. I thought you were referring to the references in your own mail! (Bit early in the day here....)
Am I correct to assume you are referring to the comments concerning Michael Moore + Frank Pauer?
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Post by baroldsan »

Yes I have no knowledge of those names
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Post by The Pom »

Michael Moore is Secretary of the Australian Cover Society. He has produced a number of monographs on the major Australian private FDC makers, and is editor of the Society Journal "The Cover Collector".

Frank Pauer is President of the Society, and Australia's leading FDC collector. Together with Paul Walker of Hawthorn Stamp Sales, he has spent a huge amount of time attempting to produce a definitive catalogue on the topic.

This was originally due to be released several years ago. Launch has been delayed by 2 main factors:
A contant stream of new research and previously unknown covers.

Technical trouble (the catalogue will be in CD ROM format).

Cheers
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Post by sherro »

I've sold a few covers to one of these gents. :)
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Post by ozstamps »

baroldsan wrote:Yes I have no knowledge of those names

You need to get out more. ;)


http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=23222690&pid=r&mode=ALL&n=0&query=pauer

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Post by baroldsan »

Image

How about this one? I obtained this last week for $1 so I can't be far out of pocket.

As far as getting out more, why bother, I learn something new every day on here
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Post by The Pom »

That one is by AMC Guthrie of Perth. Normally a $20 cover, rather less with those tape marks. Still a decent buy at $1.
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Australia Pre-Decimal First Day Covers

Post by norvic »

Done a bit more digging and found these:

4d koala FDC to England 1 Feb 1938

Image

According to SG the FD of the 2d KG6 is 11 July 1938 but this is marked not only as the FD of the stamp but also carried on the first 5d surcharge Melbourne - London Airmail and is postmarked -1 AU 38. It's got to be one or the other, I presume. Interesting also that it is described as 5d surcharge but only 5d postage is shown? Postmarked MOONEE PONDS which is, I see, a suburb of Melbourne.
Image

Anybody know anything about this? What sort of value would be attached to it?
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Re: Australia Pre-Decimal First Day Covers

Post by Diver Pete »

Ian,

The second cover I believe is listed as AAMC 820 in the latest copy of Eustis.

Image

This one from my collection with associated notes is AAMC 819 - on the way to OZ and AAMC 826 on the return: :mrgreen:

Image
Image
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Extract from AAMC

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Re: Australia Pre-Decimal First Day Covers

Post by norvic »

Thanks, Pete.
So around A$40, though perhaps reduced for the erroneous endorsement?
Or any more for early-ish use of the new 2d?

Nice, anyway.
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Re: Post your unidentified Aussie Pre Decimal FDCs here.

Post by Jack »

Hi

I am thinking the following may be Guthrie FDCs as a) they came in a bundle where the vast majority were 'named' Guthrie covers and b) these have GPO Perth like Guthrie.

But is my guess correct? And how awkward are they find?



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many thanks

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Post by tooler »

The only ones I have.

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Re: Post your unidentified Aussie Pre Decimal FDCs here.

Post by The Pom »

Jack: Those are all Guthries apart from the Flying Doctor, which is by Royal (and very common).

The Guthries are moderately scarce, and would have a CV of around $20-25 each, though yours are in less than great condition. You'd probably get a few $ each for them on ebay.

tooler10: As the logos show, you have 3 WCS and a Royal. All very common, I'm afraid. You do get examples of the 3/- flower registered/cancelled at WARATAH, which attract a premium.

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Re: Post your unidentified Aussie Pre Decimal FDCs here.

Post by The Pom »

I've just noticed the address on the Guthries (Egerton Road).

I was there a just couple of weeks ago.
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Post by Jack »

You should have knocked on the door and told them you were going to answer a question about people who lived there before them; that would have spooked them :)

And me

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Post by The Pom »

I think the original building has gone, there's a brand new development there now.

I've seen some old Aussie FDCs addressed to a house in Leeds where some friends of mine lived when they were students.
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Post by samkelly »

The Pom wrote:Michael Moore is Secretary of the Australian Cover Society. He has produced a number of monographs on the major Australian private FDC makers, and is editor of the Society Journal "The Cover Collector".
Frank Pauer is President of the Society, and Australia's leading FDC collector. Together with Paul Walker of Hawthorn Stamp Sales, he has spent a huge amount of time attempting to produce a definitive catalogue on the topic. This was originally due to be released several years ago. Launch has been delayed by 2 main factors:
A contant stream of new research and previously unknown covers.
Technical trouble (the catalogue will be in CD ROM format).
Cheers
Chris
I have sent several Emails to get contact to join the Society over several months, I have never had a reply :evil: .

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Post by The Pom »

Hi Sam,
Not sure why you've not had a reply, Mick's normally very good with his communication.
The Gloucester FDC usually appears addressed to Bishop, so is assumed to be produced by him. If anything is known about him, it's news to me.

Hawthorn Stamp sales have a couple of these on long format covers - $120 each if you're interested. On the smaller format cover I'd say $40 ish.

Cheers
Chris
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Re: Post your unidentified Aussie Pre Decimal FDCs here.

Post by samkelly »

The Pom wrote:Hi Sam,
Not sure why you've not had a reply, Mick's normally very good with his communication.
The Gloucester FDC usually appears addressed to Bishop, so is assumed to be produced by him. If anything is known about him, it's news to me.

Hawthorn Stamp sales have a couple of these on long format covers - $120 each if you're interested. On the smaller format cover I'd say $40 ish.

Cheers
Chris
Thanks Chris

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Re: Post your unidentified Aussie Pre Decimal FDCs here.

Post by traralgon3844 »

I suspect this one is reasonably common.

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Post by The Pom »

Yes, fairly common. This was produced by Robert Haslem of St Kilda, Melbourne. I'd give it a CV of $12-15 and an ebay sale price of around $7.50.

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Post by markrm »

I can see the benificiary of this cover, the Royal Alexandra Hospital for Children, Sydney, but who is the maker ? AH, and what volume were produced?
Any ideas?

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Post by The Pom »

A & H = Allen & Hanburys

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_&_Hanburys" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These were sent to doctors as promotional material. I can't tell you any numbers, but this is quite common, and usually appears with the ANPEX cancel.
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Post by markrm »

I wonder if this issue raised funds for the hospital?

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Post by ozstamps »

markrm wrote:I wonder if this issue raised funds for the hospital?
NO, it raised funds for the DRUG COMPANY!

As did all the SIGMA covers of the same era (and same size) they mailed to EVERY listed GP in the country on day of issue, stuffed full of "PRESCRIBE THIS TERRIFIC NEW DRUG" leaflets.

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Re: Post your unidentified Aussie Pre Decimal FDCs here.

Post by samkelly »

The Pom wrote:Hi Sam,
The Gloucester FDC usually appears addressed to Bishop, so is assumed to be produced by him. If anything is known about him, it's news to me.

"Inactive image - Link deleted by Moderator"
Cheers
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Hey Chris, Here is one I have that is attributed to R.N. Cole, addressed to Bishop, same handwriting on both covers but a different address.
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Re: Post your unidentified Aussie Pre Decimal FDCs here.

Post by amfhf1 »

Likely not very rare but got it for a dollar today.


Image

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Post by The Pom »

A common cover by "Wide World", worth a dollar or two, but not a great deal more.
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Post by amfhf1 »

Perhaps you could help on my reasoning on this? Its been canceled twice the smaller machine cancel unfortunaely is not readable but the second larger hand stamped one is. And it was used to cancel the third stamp the day after. Would you see it that way? If not its an expensive day after fdc ;(
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Post by amfhf1 »

Hmmmm perhaps I am not on the right thread here was going to post FDCs but, not sure they're unidentified. I just like a good thread and since I discovered how to use photobucket I can't stop posting pics. I have few more to post with permission ?

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Post by The Pom »

I would say that there's a good chance the Silver Jubilee cover is an FDC, and that the second postmark was applied later to cancel the stamp that was missed by the machine canceller.

Two things make me think it's probably an FDC.

1. Why else would anyone prepare such an over paid cover? 2/5d was a fair bit of money back then.

2. It's addressed to "Master" - a very common occurence on FDCs prepared by adults and posted to young collectors.

Can you do a higher resolution scan of the 2/- stamp? Someone might be able to play with the image and make the date readable.

Cheers
Chris

PS Please feel free to post scans of more of your FDCs
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Post by amfhf1 »

I'm struggling with high resolution part. Looking at it closely there are two twos - there is one by the tackle around the horses neck and a second slightly larger 2 just between the horses legs, but not much else there.

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Post by amfhf1 »

Here is one cover is realy nice and clean nice typed address to a politician cancel date is clear March 19 but the silly SOB put the stamp on upside down thats what happens when you deal with politicians :shock: :cry: :?
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Did not realise it was a fdc till I looked at it yesterday hoping its a good one but dot have to many fdc older than the forties so upside down or not is been moved up a few pages :)

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Post by amfhf1 »

Not done very well with my FDC this one again a lovely typhed cover clen enough cancel the stain you ask the [at]#[at][at] stamp dealer who had to have a little piece of paper saying provided by from what i remember.
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Post by GlenStephens »

The Pom wrote:I would say that there's a good chance the Silver Jubilee cover is an FDC, and that the second postmark was applied later to cancel the stamp that was missed by the machine canceller.

Two things make me think it's probably an FDC.

1. Why else would anyone prepare such an over paid cover? 2/5d was a fair bit of money back then.

2. It's addressed to "Master" - a very common occurence on FDCs prepared by adults and posted to young collectors.

Can you do a higher resolution scan of the 2/- stamp? Someone might be able to play with the image and make the date readable.

Cheers
Chris
Chris - yes more than likely. The handstamp is 4am!

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Post by The Pom »

Shame about the stain on that Coronation cover. It's not common, $30+ in very good condition.
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Post by amfhf1 »

I dont have much information on Australian covers but I am assuming and I am likely wrong but WWC stands for world wide covers and seem to be one of the more common makers? Also I have several from Royal who I think are another common one? So i am going to have to look harder to stump you. :)

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Post by Justin »

Don't recall seeing many with 'WWC' on them, but 'WCS' stands for Wesley Cover Service and is probably one of the most numerous of the cover makers.

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Post by The Pom »

As Justin says, there are no covers with WWC on them, though some dealers might use this abbreviation on their listings. Most collectors refer to them as WW.
Most are common (usually branded with the WW llogo), but there are masses of sub types (different text placements, colours etc), some of which are hard to find. There are also some scarce designs, and the later (mid 1950's) WW covers only exist in small numbers - these are generally unbranded.



Royal are all generally pretty common.
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Post by aethelwulf »

I bought 2 lots which were each described as "binder containing large quantity FDCs, all pre-decimal" in a house contents auction posted online. At $50 and $70 respectively, I figured its equal to a few weeks worth of lotto tickets, and at least FDCs have some value, you don't put a non-winning lotto ticket in an album. :lol:

Having read through this thread I've discovered album #1 is 3/4 WCS. Album #2 is similar number of Royal. So I won't trouble the thread with those. (Album 1 has 47 covers, album 2 has 61, not what I'd call "large" quantity).

The last few pages of album #1 yielded what seems to be the cream of the crop. 6 covers with the 1964-65 Bird defins (4 of them WCS but hey, the stamps themselves must mean the covers will bring more than a dollar), then 10 of the Navigators, all of these WCS but with 2x 4/, 3x 7/6, 2x 10/, 2x 10/ & 1P, 1x 1P I'm not complaining. :D

Here are the 2 non-WCS Birds, and a couple others.

Birds 1
Image

Birds 2
Image

Illustration is signed David Fowler
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The Pom
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I was online for Post Number 4 MILLION!
Posts: 11557
Joined: 02 May 2007 08:08
Location: Great Britain

Re: Post your unidentified Aussie Pre Decimal FDCs here.

Post by The Pom »

The 4 covers above:

Birds 1: Is by ACCA (Australian Cover Collectors' Association). This was an offshoot of WCS started by Gower in the early 1960s. These are just as common as WCS.

Birds 2: No strong idea who made this one, though the hand of Gower might be suspected. I have a few issues on this design of cover going back to 1960. Not common, but not rare either.

Qld Stamp Centenary: Official cover produced for the exhibition only. Very common.

Canberra: AP "Hermes" cover. This design first appeared in 1954 and is found for all pre decimal issues thereafter. It comes as red & blue as shown and also yellow and blue. These are generally fairly common, though it should be noted that for a lot of issues, one colour combination is often rather harder to find than the other. The blue & yellow tends to be more common in the 1950's, with the blue & red becoming much more common in the 1960's.
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

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