Australia stamp cancels and postmarks that have you beaten!

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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by KevinHedley »

There was a village on the banks of the Nattai River many years ago but I doubt whether its location can be easily identified. I have seen a parish map from 1945 showing ownerships but could not see anything indicating the site of the post office.

The area is now a National Park but it did have a number of mines and there is still coal in the region.

Long before the post office was established the river would have been the quickest way to transport heavy goods to the southern highlands region.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by muttly2011 »

Re Nattai River Post Office,

From Trove, 'The Broadcaster' February 20th, 1973:
Image

The possible location:

Image
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by maxkirin »

Hi Brad,

Here are the large photos of the stamps, and David, I can only see "SULTAN" on the cancellations; but probably must have been ships handstamp.

Any example of similar to compare? Photos or links would help.

Also how common are Sydney Cancellations on WA Stamps?

Max

Image

Image
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by BigSaint »

Thank you Max for the larger images. Yes they do look like they are ship's handstamp.

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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by maxkirin »

Hi Brad, it does looks like it, but Sydney cancellation on the above example has Wool Department Sydney. Does it means it was used in Sydney, NSW ?

If so were WA stamps frequently used in NSW state and vice versa ? Any premiums to it ?

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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by traralgon3844 »

maxkirin wrote:Hi Brad, it does looks like it, but Sydney cancellation on the above example has Wool Department Sydney. Does it means it was used in Sydney, NSW ?

If so were WA stamps frequently used in NSW state and vice versa ? Any premiums to it ?

Max
Post Federation after specific dates other States stamps were permitted to be used in any other States for postage. There is a thread discussing this somewhere.

After all post 1901, we were Australian not colonies.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by maxkirin »

Thank You so much traralgon. Saved all the troubles, I didn't even realize the dates, until I had a proper look :lol: :lol: :lol:. Makes sense now.

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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by traralgon3844 »

ozstamps wrote:
Slayer wrote:

Were stamps generally used in their own states (apart from NT)- i.e NSW couldnt be used in Queensland?
Extract from my Victoria 1907 1 pound KEVII new listing here:

http://www.glenstephens.com/rarity

----------------

This is the FEDERAL period, and this is a Commonwealth Of Australia stamp, not a "Victoria" stamp as such - it could legally be used in ANY state. The ACSC now catalogues and prices all such issues, and their prices will rocket, as they truly are "Australian" stamps, not "State" stamps.

As is generally known, Australia became a 'Commonwealth' on January 1, 1901 - the month Queen Victoria died. For postal arrangements, the amalgamation of the six different state Post and Telegraph services was required. This occurred on March 1, 1901. That date can be regarded as the date after which any stamps issued, were done so by the Australian Commonwealth Postmaster-General's Department.

However, the Post and Telegraph Act 1901 was not enacted into law until November 1, 1901. Interestingly enough Colonial stamps were never demonetised, and most continued to be valid for use (in any State) after 1901 - indeed were fully legal on any mail until 1968. Many collectors and dealers used them for normal mail to other collectors as low values were very inexpensive.

For near a century 'Australian' stamp issues have been regarded as those commencing with the Kangaroo and Map series in 1913. This new ACSC catalogue (correctly) broadly defines them as any stamps issued since 1901.

Curiously, despite Queen Victoria dying in January 1901, nearly all stamps on sale across Australia until the Kangaroo series was issued in 1913 featured her image - which itself was over 70 years old. I have NEVER understood why the next 2 monarchs were not depicted on the letter-rate stamps.

A person licking a 1d or 2d Queen Victoria stamp onto every letter they mailed for 12 years after she had died, as there was no other design choice, seems incredibly bizarre. If you lived in Victoria or Queensland or South Australia, that was your only option.

King Edward VII's Coronation was 9th August 1902. Other than these £1 and £2 design high values, he was not depicted on any other State's postage stamps.

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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by maxkirin »

That's an interesting article, and had me into deep thinking. Loved reading it and trying to grasp at the same time.

Thanks again.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by maxkirin »

Hello members,

I have a Victoria state stamp, cancelled MCCCCC / 22 ? Can anyone please explain what numbers they are ?

As far as I know, it's 1522 in numbers ? Looks like kind of Roman Numeral MCCCCC. And are they scarce in this type of cancellations?

Max

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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by muttly2011 »

Max, the cancellation is MCCCC/22 1422 Armadale Type 14B, Rated R.

(From 'The Numeral Cancellations of Victoria', Freeman and White, RPSV, 2001)

The 1500's used the correct Roman numeral MD.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by BigSaint »

Max

This thread has a list of these numeral cancellations:
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15930
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by maxkirin »

An excellent resource Brad, I'll check the link when am home in the evening.

Muttly, to be honest, I didn't know the proper format for Roman numerals, need to go back to basics again, which am finding interesting, as the flashback memories during school years are coming back gradually.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by BigSaint »

One that arrived today from Pinaroo, SA:
Image
I have seen 12 AM & 12 PM but I have never seen 12 N00N before. Does anyone else have examples :?:

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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by Machaggis52 »

Can anyone tell me if WENTWORTH FALLS is a rare postmark? I have it on a penny red, the previous owner had marked on the back 'Open 1914 - 1918' and marked it rrrrr.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by The Pom »

A quick Google shows Wentworth Falls currently has a Post Office.

Maybe the previous owner thought it was a rare type, it may well be worth showing us a scan before Glen starts shouting at you. :)
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by Kainnikanada »

Machaggis52 wrote:Can anyone tell me if WENTWORTH FALLS is a rare postmark? I have it on a penny red, the previous owner had marked on the back 'Open 1914 - 1918' and marked it rrrrr.
The NSW post office was open from 1886. It used various date stamps. Your attached scan helps to narrow down the Tobin type used especially with the clear date(?). This invisible strike is especially rare since we cannot identify it; could be unique.

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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by Machaggis52 »

Kainnikanada wrote:
Machaggis52 wrote:Can anyone tell me if WENTWORTH FALLS is a rare postmark? I have it on a penny red, the previous owner had marked on the back 'Open 1914 - 1918' and marked it rrrrr.
The NSW post office was open from 1886. It used various date stamps. Your attached scan helps to narrow down the Tobin type used especially with the clear date(?). This invisible strike is especially rare since we cannot identify it; could be unique.

WTF!
My question was answered. I'm not a postmark collector, in fact I like my KGV sidefaces with as much clear stamp as possible. If the post office is still open, then the likelihood of the cancel being unusual is small. There is certainly nothing that differentiates it from any other cancel I have.

I do take it that you know what WTF stands for? May I suggest you wind your neck in?
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Post by The Pom »

Machaggis52 wrote: My question was answered. If the post office is still open, then the likelihood of the cancel being unusual is small.
Jim,

Your question was only partially answered. You were simply informed that there has been a PO there since 1886.

There are plenty of cases where a certain design of cancel has been in brief use at a PO from which cancels are generally plentiful - such cancels may attract a significant premium.

Yours may or may not be such a cancel - we can only guess. You've been a Board member long enough to know we need scans, and as a KGV collector you know the devil is in the detail.

We're trying to help. All we want is a scan. We're not asking you to crawl naked through broken glass!
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Post by Kainnikanada »

The Pom wrote: Jim,
We're trying to help. All we want is a scan. We're not asking you to crawl naked through broken glass!
Well That's Fantastic (WTF)!
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by Machaggis52 »

The Pom wrote:
Machaggis52 wrote: My question was answered. If the post office is still open, then the likelihood of the cancel being unusual is small.
Jim,

Your question was only partially answered. You were simply informed that there has been a PO there since 1886.

There are plenty of cases where a certain design of cancel has been in brief use at a PO from which cancels are generally plentiful - such cancels may attract a significant premium.

Yours may or may not be such a cancel - we can only guess. You've been a Board member long enough to know we need scans, and as a KGV collector you know the devil is in the detail.

We're trying to help. All we want is a scan. We're not asking you to crawl naked through broken glass!
The answer was sufficient for me. I find Imgur such a pain to use, that I'm waiting until images can be posted directly to the boards before posting any more.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by Machaggis52 »

By popular demand:

Image
The post mark is ? Ju 1915.

The note on the back of the stamp indicates that either the post office shut in 1914 (which wouldn't appear to be the case, or, the postmark type went out of use then.

To me, the postmark is perfectly ordinary, but I'm not a postmark collector.
With kind regards, Jim
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by BigSaint »

Machaggis52 wrote:By popular demand:

Image
The post mark is ? Ju 1915.

The note on the back of the stamp indicates that either the post office shut in 1914 (which wouldn't appear to be the case, or, the postmark type went out of use then.

To me, the postmark is perfectly ordinary, but I'm not a postmark collector.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by Machaggis52 »

BigSaint wrote:
Machaggis52 wrote:By popular demand:

Image
The post mark is ? Ju 1915.

The note on the back of the stamp indicates that either the post office shut in 1914 (which wouldn't appear to be the case, or, the postmark type went out of use then.

To me, the postmark is perfectly ordinary, but I'm not a postmark collector.
Worth The Foto. :D
This is the bit where you are supposed to tell me it is unique, and I can retire on the proceeds. Oh, wait a minute, I am retired... :D

Is that postmark oval, or is it just my ancient eyes playing up? :D
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by Kainnikanada »

Machaggis52 wrote:By popular demand:

Image
The post mark is ? Ju 1915.

The note on the back of the stamp indicates that either the post office shut in 1914 (which wouldn't appear to be the case, or, the postmark type went out of use then.

To me, the postmark is perfectly ordinary, but I'm not a postmark collector.
Good guess with the date.

It is -3JU1915.

The date stamp is round.

The post office operated continuously during the 1914 -1918 period. Hopson & Tobin document date stamp type 2(iii) (which is your example) as having been used to 1914 and type 2B 1918+. Their records were incomplete for the 1914 - 18 gap - common for many of the post offices seen in their 4 volume publication that is comprehensive but not 100% complete for all the date stamps used.
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Post by Machaggis52 »

Thank you.

So, the point the previous owner is making is that the CDS is being used out of period, but, because the records between 1914 and 1918 are incomplete, it cannot be said that it has been used out of period?

Being Scottish, I have to ask... any value to it? :D
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Post by Kainnikanada »

Jim,

The date on your example can be used to firm up the usage dates. I doubt if there is much of a premium based on the results of items seen on Premier Postal Auction's site where dates of usage are often extended by years but seldom decades.

When I get my desktop back up or set up a new one I'll post a scan of Hopson & Tobin's write-up for this post office. Below are the two types of Tobin date stamps used consecutively possibly concurrently as well. The type 2(iii) has the year in full as does yours - note the 2B has double arcs.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by Micky »

Evening all, I have a blurry one I thought might be Ross in Tasmania, but I have no idea what is written at the base. Any thoughts on what this one is?

Image

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Post by traralgon3844 »

Berwick, Victoria.
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Post by Micky »

Oh my, I thought I was reading D14 at the top of scan. How embarrassing.

Thanks Traralgon3844

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Post by Kainnikanada »

Machaggis52 wrote:By popular demand:

Image
Jim,

Here's the description Hopson and Tobin have published for the Wentworth Falls post office particulars:
Image
There are three gaps in the date stamp usages i.e. no continuity.
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Post by BigSaint »

Can someone help me with this one :?:
Image

Image


Looks "Stamp K....... Eliz.....", but I cannot find it in PPA

Thank you in advance.

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Post by muttly2011 »

BigSaint wrote:

Looks "Stamp K....... Eliz.....", but I cannot find it in PPA

Thank you in advance.

Brad
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Post by BigSaint »

muttly2011 wrote:
BigSaint wrote:

Looks "Stamp K....... Eliz.....", but I cannot find it in PPA

Thank you in advance.

Brad
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Thank you muttly2011. :)

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Post by Darkice »

Hi fellow members,

Can anyone help me with this Vic postmark?

Image


thanks,

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Post by Darkice »

Also stuck with this one.

Image

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Post by BigSaint »

Darkice wrote:Also stuck with this one.

Image

Mal.
Grovedale :?:
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Post by traralgon3844 »

Nah, Thorpdale.
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Post by muttly2011 »

Agree with Thorpdale and first one is Loch.
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Post by traralgon3844 »

Darkice wrote:Hi fellow members,

Can anyone help me with this Vic postmark?

Image


thanks,

Mal.
LOCH. Victoria.
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Post by Darkice »

Thanks Guys

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Post by Darkice »

Ok last one.

Can we narrow this one down?

M 32?

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Post by Darkice »

Sorry just answered my Question

322 Cardigan
323 Campbelltown
325 Moonambel
327 Tranagulla
328 Yarra Glen
32 Coleraine

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Post by muttly2011 »

327(3) Tarnagulla, Second duplex.

Known used up until 1924.

Source: The Numeral Cancellations of Victoria, Freeman and White, RPSV, 2001.
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Darkice
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by Darkice »

Awesome thanks for the info,

Regards Mal.
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Brummie
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Re: Australian Cancels That Have You Stumped - Sleuths Neede

Post by Brummie »

patg wrote:I'm guessing: ?-(T or I)AR(N or M)???-D. Tried PPA, no luck. Nice clear date and VIC.

Image

Thanks for any help,
patg
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Re: Australian Cancels That Have You Stumped - Sleuths Neede

Post by Bunge »

Brummie wrote:
patg wrote:I'm guessing: ?-(T or I)AR(N or M)???-D. Tried PPA, no luck. Nice clear date and VIC.

Image

Thanks for any help,
patg
St Arnaud perhaps
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Ubobo.R.O.
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Re: Australian Cancels That Have You Stumped - Sleuths Neede

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Bunge wrote:
Brummie wrote:
patg wrote:I'm guessing: ?-(T or I)AR(N or M)???-D. Tried PPA, no luck. Nice clear date and VIC.

Image

Thanks for any help,
patg
St Arnaud perhaps
I'll second that.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by Brummie »

Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you beaten! has been rescued from Photobucket.
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Re: Australian stamp cancels and postmarks that have you bea

Post by manfaefife »

Cheers Brummie Excellent Job.
Donald.
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