"Rust" and Foxing etc on stamps. How best to store them?

Stampboards has 1000s of regular readers who WILL take the time to help out even with the most basic question. If you are new to stamps - or taking up the hobby after a long break, there is a lot to learn. PLEASE do not be shy in asking the simplest of questions .. members here will be delighted to help you with the answers!

Moderator: Volunteer Moderator Team

Post Reply
User avatar
POP
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Posts: 218
Joined: 14 Aug 2018 18:48
Location: Weymouth

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by POP »

Thinking of buying this stamp, can't decide if this is rust or tuning ?

What do others think, i don't want it infecting other stamps but not so easy to find another unused example.

Front : Image

Important back : Image
User avatar
CHzug1291
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
Posts: 3151
Joined: 18 May 2007 21:22
Location: Wyee, NSW
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by CHzug1291 »

POP, to my eyes this is clearly rust and I personally would leave this stamp in the sellers possession!

Peter :D
User avatar
RobRoyH
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 8506
Joined: 19 May 2011 13:12
Location: Mansfield, Texas USA
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by RobRoyH »

The above looks like rust to me. Sometimes you will see very similar stains on perf tips and I suspect the culprit is use of tobacco products by whoever originally licked the stamp.

If you see it on cover, or piece, and it is limited to just the perf tips... it probably isn’t rust... it might just be a bit of something destined for the spittoon.
"You say grace before meals. All right. But I say grace… before I dip the pen in the ink."
G. K. Chesterton
User avatar
Global Admin
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 76442
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone, Oz
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by Global Admin »

Such a mint stamp will get much worse, very quickly. And the fungal growth you see, will spread to 1000s of other stamps stored anywhere near it - mould spreads by airborne spores.

Deliberately buying such a mint stamp at ANY price, is like using used cooking oil in a Ferrari - not very bright. :idea:

Glen
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
POP
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Senior Member Advanced Posting Guru
Posts: 218
Joined: 14 Aug 2018 18:48
Location: Weymouth

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by POP »

Thanks guys, i'm taking your advice and staying clear.

If it weren't for this board and reading the topics on rust i'd never have known about it.
Last edited by POP on 23 Jun 2019 19:43, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MJ's pet
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 5586
Joined: 16 Jan 2018 11:03
Location: Australia

Re:

Post by MJ's pet »

mrboggler wrote:The original post was ..what was the difference between Rust and Toning, :?:

In A Nutshell,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

If you are selling an item to me its RUST, :twisted:
if I am selling the same item to you its toning, :roll:

depends on what side of the counter you stand. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Ron.(Trust me I am a Stamp Dealer) :wink:
A very sensible post from MrBoggler in 2008.

Ah good times.
linuxreign
Blue Star less than 5 posts NEWBIE!
Blue Star less than 5 posts NEWBIE!
Posts: 3
Joined: 24 Jul 2019 06:42
Location: Panama

Stamp restoration?

Post by linuxreign »

Hello,
I have several of these, all stained and moldy, would be worth or advisable to try a cleaning?

Image

Thanks for the advise in advanced :)

Rodrigo
User avatar
Global Admin
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 76442
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone, Oz
Contact:

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by Global Admin »

The USA is a very common stamp, horribly centred and clearly very badly damaged already.

Sadly it belongs in the bin. Nothing will improve it.
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
Rigs
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1808
Joined: 10 Apr 2019 15:51
Location: Port Macquarie, Australia

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by Rigs »

Just to add a further tidbit example to this thread ...

Last year I returned to stamp collecting after almost forty or so years gap.

I had a few of those crappy chinese albums and a lighthouse album sitting in a room here in Port Macquarie for decades, where maybe I had glanced at them less than half a dozen times during that lengthy period, without really examining them.

The MUH stamps in the Chinese albums were completely ruined with foxing etc. but to a much lesser degree only some of the MUH stamps in the Lighthouse album were modestly affected. These affected were typically located on the top row of the album - due to having no slipcases!

However there were also quite a few MUH stamps that happened to be have been stored in a large airtight plastic container and are completely unaffected by any foxing/rust issues ... not that that's practical as you want them in albums to view etc., but proves some of the arguments above.

I guess the lesson is also it pays not to neglect them in the first place.

(And, re climate, Port Macquarie on the mid north coast of New South Wales is regarded as having a very desirable, mild sub-tropical climate, unlike Queensland, but there are a few weeks around January where the humidity/heat can be severe.)
User avatar
Global Admin
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 76442
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone, Oz
Contact:

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by Global Admin »

Rigs wrote:
The MUH stamps in the Chinese albums were completely ruined with foxing etc. but to a much lesser degree only some of the MUH stamps in the Lighthouse album were modestly affected. These affected were typically located on the top row of the album - due to having no slipcases!
This was the subject to my Stamp News column this month -

https://glenstephens.com/snaugust19.html

EVERYONE reading this, no matter WHERE they live, need SLIPCASES - period -
Image
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
imworld
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
Posts: 1141
Joined: 28 Jan 2012 15:02
Location: Melbourne, Vic, Australia
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by imworld »

I think this is rust but would like someone more knowledgeable to confirm.

Image

Image

Image

Is it worthwhile keeping them or just chuck them in the bin?
Collecting whales, dolphins, orchids, lighthouses, myths, legends and local folklore.
User avatar
Allanswood
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 17128
Joined: 02 Dec 2009 11:59
Location: Goulburn NSW Australia

Re: Re:

Post by Allanswood »

MJ's pet wrote:
mrboggler wrote:The original post was ..what was the difference between Rust and Toning, :?:

In A Nutshell,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

If you are selling an item to me its RUST, :twisted:
if I am selling the same item to you its toning, :roll:

depends on what side of the counter you stand. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Ron.(Trust me I am a Stamp Dealer) :wink:
A very sensible post from MrBoggler in 2008.

Ah good times.


Sorry but for me "rust" is not "toning" depending on how one wishes to understand these words. Otherwise reasonable stamps get destroyed when collectors think the sky is falling in.

"Rust" goes from measles to ebola on a stamp and is a biological/sometime chemical reaction/residue that has a brown to orange appearance in spots, often round. It may be on one single perf or along and edge or looks like a pepperoni pizza. I don't usually smell rust, but I do smell mould. Rust does not often burn through the paper.

"Rust" is bad, but can be halted and often treated.

"Mould" is a similar but different cause with the worst results for a stamp made of wood fibre. It's usually a blue, black, grey colour and will burn through the paper. Basically your stamp is composting. Mould stinks.

"Mould" is catastrophic.

"Toning" is just age or environment related discoloration of paper, making the whole stamp a darker shade that was issued, or a darker shade where exposed, but not spotty, round or caused by wood fungal spores. (Stick a sheet of cheap newspaper in the sun for a day and you'll see the results of fast toning). Gum can also be aged or toned, while the front looks fine.

"Toning" can be OK, it's just age.

For me the confusion comes when someone calls a stamp obviously rust affected and being toned.

I've had an experiment sitting on my desk for about 6 years now. A rust affected stamp sitting on top of another of the same stamp but not rust affected. Nothing has happened to my clean stamp as my stamp room is constant low stable humidity and low heat. The rust is there on one stamp but inert.

I meant to try another one where I'll put a clean stamp in a bag with a drop of water, seal it and see how fast something happens, but I'll need to do 2, one on the kitchen window (bad environment) and one in my stamp room (good environment, but I expect to see mould, not rust).
Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4578
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by johnrcrow »

There was no mention of foxing by others (as yet).

The interactions of paper, biological entities and environmental factors are complex.

The article below demonstrates this.


https://inspectapedia.com/mold/Foxing_Stains.php#FoxChem


It is not easy to pin point the exact nature of any stains, spots and generally discolouration without advanced techniques.

Fungal contamination can be from many species and removal is difficult in that the cellulose matrix of a stamp has been invaded and the mycelium of fungi can be very extensive, what we see is the fruiting body on the surface.

The more serious contaminations, where there are dark brown or black spots (areas), will prove more problematic with regard to infections of other stamps and the paper where they sit.

One study demonstrated that the ´contamination`of one stamp did not affect another.

I've had an experiment sitting on my desk for about 6 years now. A rust affected stamp sitting on top of another of the same stamp but not rust affected. Nothing has happened to my clean stamp as my stamp room is constant low stable humidity and low heat. The rust is there on one stamp but inert.

Hardly a statistical study but interesting and again the specific contamination is all important.


Have a look at the old hinges on some stamps where there is often a ready source of black material. Note also that hinges are often licked so this might be a source of such a contamination.


Toning describes an observed difference in colour of the stamp from the usual.

Toning is a general descriptor and can be associated with anything that alters the ´shade`of a stamp.

Toning as I see it is a factor of light, humidity and storage conditions. I am sure we all have examples of yellowed stamps either completely yellowed or in part.

Foxing definitely implies some form staining of the paper. I did not know that ´foxing` was derived as shown below in a quote from article in inspectapedia.com that also deals with the reasons for foxing.

It is useful to note that the term foxing, used to describe brown or reddish brown discoloration appearing on books, papers, some photographs, derives its name from The F and Ox in Ferrous Oxide, or iron oxide deposits that are attracted to areas in the paper substrate.


Here a was there list of the fungi identified as growing on or in paper materials.

Aspergillus sp.
Aspergillus melleus [brownish stains, visible microscopically]
Aspergillus sclerotiorum [pale brown stains on paper, visible microscopically]
Cladosporyum sp. [Cladosporium sp. - ed.]
Cladosporyum sphaerospermum [pale brown stains on paper]
Penicillium sp. [at least 5 different species or strains]
Penicillium purpurogenum [brownish-yellow stains; pale whitish stains, visible microscopically]
Pithomyces chartarum [often appearing black on surfaces, brown or dark brown stains visible microscopically]
Ulocladium alternarie
Yeast [species to be identified]

I note the use of a microwave in getting rid of molds!

mmm

Looks like a project.

John
User avatar
Allanswood
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 17128
Joined: 02 Dec 2009 11:59
Location: Goulburn NSW Australia

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by Allanswood »

johnrcrow wrote:There was no mention of foxing by others (as yet).

Because Foxing is Rust.
And there are other threads about "it" along with their long arguments.
Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"
User avatar
johnrcrow
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 4578
Joined: 04 Feb 2012 09:18
Location: Idolsberg, Austria
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by johnrcrow »

Indeed ´foxing`appears in Stampboards in a large number of threads.

The current thread is more of a focus on differences and of course rust (rusting?) might be defined as the same as foxing.

However, I regard foxing as a more general description of the state of paper without seeing specific areas of concentration of contaminant, whereas ´rust` is a more specific observation where are definitive foci of infection due to colonies of molds (that may be rusts) or some other fungus, bacterium of yeast.

Since rust is a descriptor for a specific organism, rusting should convey the culprit but in stamp parlance rust(ing) has been generalised in describing any discolouration (rusty colour?), or black, brown, purple etc., spotting.

Specifically, Rusts are plant diseases caused by pathogenic fungi of the order Pucciniales (previously also known as Uredinales).

So foxing (browning?) can be caused by different attackers or atmospheric and storage problems whereas strictly rust(ing) is caused by a specific set of attackers, and indeed some `rusts` can cause ´foxing`.

It does not matter much about definitions. If you have a spotty discoloured stamp then that is what it is, contaminated and a potential threat to your other stamps.

If there is an overall discolouration, a distinct reduction in expected shade, then this is an age-related paper deterioration problem due to destruction of the lignin by sunlight and absorbed atmospheric pollution (as indicated in quote below).
Wiki.

Foxing is an age-related process of deterioration that causes spots and browning on old paper documents such as books, postage stamps and certificates. The name may derive from the fox-like reddish-brown color of the stains, or the rust chemical ferric oxide which may be involved. Paper so affected is said to be "foxed".

Although unsightly and a negative factor in the value of the paper item for collectors, foxing does not affect the actual integrity of the paper.

Foxing also occurs in biological study skins or specimens, as an effect of chemical reactions or mold on melanin.

Aside from foxing, other types of age-related paper deterioration include destruction of the lignin by sunlight and absorbed atmospheric pollution, typically causing the paper to go brown and crumble at the edges, and acid-related damage to cheap paper such as newsprint, which is manufactured without neutralizing acidic contaminants.

Causes of foxing
The causes of foxing are not well understood. One theory is that foxing is caused by a fungal growth on the paper. Another theory is that foxing is caused by the effect on certain papers of the oxidation of iron, copper, or other substances in the pulp or rag from which the paper was made. It is possible that multiple factors are involved. High humidity may contribute to foxing.

So rust(ing) is a biological attack.
Toning is an atmospheric attack.
Foxing can be either.

John
User avatar
imworld
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
Posts: 1141
Joined: 28 Jan 2012 15:02
Location: Melbourne, Vic, Australia
Contact:

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by imworld »

Can anyone confirm if this is rusting? And if so, should I just chuck them in the bin?

Image

Image

Image
Collecting whales, dolphins, orchids, lighthouses, myths, legends and local folklore.
User avatar
admin
Site Administrator
Posts: 13550
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 12:46
Location: That's on a need to know basis - and YOU do not need to know!
Contact:

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by admin »

Wash the gum off and flatten them in a Drying Book. Or if Australian (you have not bothered to tell us) lick them on a parcel.

Do something or it WILL get worse for sure. :idea: :idea:
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
imworld
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
Posts: 1141
Joined: 28 Jan 2012 15:02
Location: Melbourne, Vic, Australia
Contact:

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by imworld »

admin wrote:Wash the gum off and flatten them in a Drying Book. Or if Australian (you have not bothered to tell us) lick them on a parcel.

Do something or it WILL get worse for sure. :idea: :idea:

Thanks Glen. Unfortunately, these are not Australian stamps so I can’t use them for postage. I will do as you advised
Collecting whales, dolphins, orchids, lighthouses, myths, legends and local folklore.
User avatar
Stewie1980
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
Posts: 3626
Joined: 18 Oct 2011 23:28
Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by Stewie1980 »

imworld wrote: Thanks Glen. Unfortunately, these are not Australian stamps so I can’t use them for postage. I will do as you advised
Are these Thai stamps?
User avatar
imworld
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
Posts: 1141
Joined: 28 Jan 2012 15:02
Location: Melbourne, Vic, Australia
Contact:

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by imworld »

Yes they are. How did you know? Did you have the same problems too?
Collecting whales, dolphins, orchids, lighthouses, myths, legends and local folklore.
User avatar
danyeung
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1236
Joined: 30 Mar 2008 16:52
Location: Sydney

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by danyeung »

Is this rust or toning ?

The back of the cover doesn't seem to be affected much.

It is unfortunate of the look otherwise it is a nice airmail cover to India with a pair of Rabbit Bandicoot and reverse Delhi postmark at the front.

Image

Image
User avatar
RobRoyH
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 8506
Joined: 19 May 2011 13:12
Location: Mansfield, Texas USA
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by RobRoyH »

The tan constant background color of both front and back MIGHT be toning... or the paper may have been originally that color.

The brown splotches look more like stain or transfer than rust to me.... like it was put face down on a lunch counter before a bit of brown gravy had been wiped up. :lol:
"You say grace before meals. All right. But I say grace… before I dip the pen in the ink."
G. K. Chesterton
User avatar
admin
Site Administrator
Posts: 13550
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 12:46
Location: That's on a need to know basis - and YOU do not need to know!
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by admin »

RobRoyH wrote: The brown splotches look more like stain or transfer than rust to me.... like it was put face down on a lunch counter before a bit of brown gravy had been wiped up. :lol:
Exterior stain - went to India - so Vindaloo Curry possibly? :lol: :lol: :lol:

NOTHING will save this wreck.

Usual India age toning stains, mixed with Vindaloo type grease.
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
The Pom
I was online for Post Number 4 MILLION!
I was online for Post Number 4 MILLION!
Posts: 13843
Joined: 02 May 2007 08:08
Location: Great Britain

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by The Pom »

Unlikely to be vindaloo, that's a Goan dish. Delhi is 2,000km north of Goa. :)
Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.
User avatar
admin
Site Administrator
Posts: 13550
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 12:46
Location: That's on a need to know basis - and YOU do not need to know!
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by admin »

We are flying to Delhi soon. I'll send you a photo of a Vindaloo. :mrgreen:

After all, you can buy solid grease chip butties, (heart attacks in a meal) and warm beer all over the UK - no exceptions.
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
danyeung
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1236
Joined: 30 Mar 2008 16:52
Location: Sydney

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by danyeung »

I can confirm the cover doesn't carry the smell of gravy or vindaloo :)

Maybe as RobRoyH suggested it was put face down - on a wet brown letter so got the stain and reverse postmark.
User avatar
Global Admin
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 76442
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone, Oz
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by Global Admin »

The same stain is on front AND back.
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
psestamp
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1494
Joined: 04 Aug 2012 09:29
Location: Henderson, Nevada, USA
Contact:

Re: Rust, etc.

Post by psestamp »

doug2222usa wrote:My sense has always been that toning comes from age or exposure to sunlight, NOT from bacteria, mold, or mildew action.

Rust, or more commonly "tropical stain" in the US, is the result of a tiny organism living on the stamp surface or adjacent materials, and may affect only part of the stamp, like the perf tips. This "rust" has nothing to do with the oxidation of iron.

Do most of you agree or disagree with this point of view?
Iron based inks - like on US #11, C1 and all the 6 cent Washington heads get this. Hydrogen Peroxide can "cure" a good part of this chemically (it either strips or adds an oxygen molecule - I don't recall my high school chemistry).

ozstamps wrote:Bear .. a tiny quirt of a detergent and a slow dry in these stamp Drying Books, and a fair amount of your problems will be gone:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3329&start=200
If I may - When I get a heavily toned stamp I will soak it in Ronsanol lighter fluid for a day or 2. That removes a lot of "foxing" and many other types of discoloration. (Standard warning - it is lighter fluid so don't be stupid with it). If you are careful it also has no effect on the gum so it can be used on mint stamps.

BTW - Detergent - not Bleach. Never bleach your stamps (at least in the USA). Bleached stamps are faulty stamps. It can be fixed with time but that time is 5-10 years to get the normal paper color tone back. It also - obviously - destroys the gum.
danyeung wrote:I can confirm the cover doesn't carry the smell of gravy or vindaloo :)

Maybe as RobRoyH suggested it was put face down - on a wet brown letter so got the stain and reverse postmark.
Also a tip - for Cigarette (or gravy) smells in an album..... Put a few dryer sheets in the binder/book and in a few days the smell will be gone.
Stamp Collecting Happened when we Dream Together
Caj Brejtfus, PSE -WE KILL FAKE STAMPS. and always remember...... DFTBA
User avatar
pirano
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1810
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 03:33
Location: Nice, France

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by pirano »

A more basic question, if I may:

I've seen it mentioned a few times elsewhere so I'm wondering if it's been established that a brief bath in boiling water can at least halt most of the mold/spores/ etc from doing further harm?
Collecting used postage and revenue stamps and covers worldwide. Find me on Colnect here: https://colnect.com/en/collectors/collector/BobRamsak
User avatar
psestamp
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1494
Joined: 04 Aug 2012 09:29
Location: Henderson, Nevada, USA
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by psestamp »

pirano wrote:A more basic question, if I may:

I've seen it mentioned a few times elsewhere so I'm wondering if it's been established that a brief bath in boiling water can at least halt most of the mold/spores/ etc from doing further harm?
I assume you mean hot water.
boiling stamps is probably not a good idea.
Stamp Collecting Happened when we Dream Together
Caj Brejtfus, PSE -WE KILL FAKE STAMPS. and always remember...... DFTBA
User avatar
pirano
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1810
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 03:33
Location: Nice, France

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by pirano »

Yes, thanks, hot. Does that work as a spore killer?
Collecting used postage and revenue stamps and covers worldwide. Find me on Colnect here: https://colnect.com/en/collectors/collector/BobRamsak
User avatar
Global Admin
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 76442
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone, Oz
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by Global Admin »

The owner of the finest world stamp collection ever formed, Count Phillipe Von Ferrary used to BOIL all older stamps any dealer tried to sell him. He had a clear glass beaker on a Bunsen burner on his desk for this exact purpose.

All repairs, added margins, added corners, and fiddles would quickly undo when boiled. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not highly recommended, altho for most stamps it does no harm. :idea:

Hottest water from the tap is generally good for floating off hinges and gook and glue and gunk, and the dust of ages, and exposes most repairs.

Hot water from a boiled kettle for a short while, also causes near zero issues over warm water. And will generally kill any active mould infestations.

Any fugitive ink of course will run/fade badly even in COLD water - basic common sense etc. If in doubt, do none of the above.

Glen
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
warm
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Founder Member Joined April 2007
Posts: 2448
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 10:11
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by warm »

A left field question.

Sodium Percarbonate was recently suggested as useful when very dilute.

from google:

'An oxygenated cleaner is typically sodium percarbonate based which gives it the additional disinfecting power of hydrogen peroxide when active. When applied, the oxygen bleach uses oxygen bubbles to break the bond between the mold and the material then pulls the mold up and out.'

It can be purchased from home beer brew shops

Has anyone heard of this before?

Another quote:
What is an oxygen bleach?

An oxygen based cleaner can come in either powder or liquid and basically uses oxygen to clean, instead of harsh chemicals. It's color-safe and non-toxic qualities make it a favorite among professionals because it can deliver the same "bleachy" clean look without the problematic side effects of other toxic cleaners. An oxygenated cleaner is typically sodium percarbonate based which gives it the additional disinfecting power of hydrogen peroxide when active. When applied, the oxygen bleach uses oxygen bubbles to break the bond between the mold and the material then pulls the mold up and out. This process is essential because even dead mold spores remain allergenic to humans. An oxygen bleach is a safe and proven method for not only disinfection but is imperative for reducing mold exposure to your family and discouraging new growth.
User avatar
pirano
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1810
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 03:33
Location: Nice, France

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by pirano »

Global Administrator wrote:The owner of the finest world stamp collection ever formed, Count Phillipe Von Ferrary used to BOIL all older stamps any dealer tried to sell him. He had a clear glass beaker on a Bunsen burner on his desk for this exact purpose.

All repairs, added margins, added corners, and fiddles would quickly undo when boiled. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not highly recommended, altho for most stamps it does no harm. :idea:

Hottest water from the tap is generally good for floating off hinges and gook and glue and gunk, and the dust of ages, and exposes most repairs.

Hot water from a boiled kettle for a short while, also causes near zero issues over warm water. And will generally kill any active mould infestations.

Any fugitive ink of course will run/fade badly even in COLD water - basic common sense etc. If in doubt, do none of the above.

Glen
Thanks, Glen, very much appreciated. I usually give new (to me) used stamps that haven't seen the light of day for a while a quick cold bath upon arrival in any case. Good to know that adjusting the temperature could also bring some benefits.
Collecting used postage and revenue stamps and covers worldwide. Find me on Colnect here: https://colnect.com/en/collectors/collector/BobRamsak
User avatar
ViccyVFU
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 5468
Joined: 23 Feb 2018 23:49
Location: Harrogate, UK

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by ViccyVFU »

warm wrote:Sodium Percarbonate was recently suggested as useful when very dilute.
When talking about all stamps of the world, I'd definitely steer clear of anything with an acidic or bleaching effect, as individual inks and paper combinations will give differing results.

For 30 years we've looked for "acid / bleach free pages" .... there is a reason for this.

If you read the safety sheet, you'll see that its more of a cleaner for hard, unreactive areas.
(N.B. With a lot of handling guidance about toxicity!).

Bleaching effect often takes a long time to fully mature, especially at low concentrations - can you be sure you'd completely wash off all the chemicals?

My general guidance would be to steer clear of all bleachers, and preferably remove all spore infected stamps from your collection (where that is practical).

Where it is not practical, start on "donor stamps", and check the effect over a year, or so, before trying it on anything critical.

"I've seen more ruined, than saved". :(
User avatar
ebay
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 100538
Joined: 22 Jul 2018 20:44
Location: West Midlands UK

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by ebay »

Rust, foxing or chickenpox ?

Image

its for sale on ebay : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INDIA-QV-STATIONERY-CUT-OUTS-TELE ... SwRgNdZLOD
User avatar
Global Admin
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 76442
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone, Oz
Contact:

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by Global Admin »

Spiv Singapore seller "asianstamp" - $US55 posted.

Ebay Dreamer - First class.

Value in the REAL world - about 55 CENTS!
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
Stewie1980
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
2500 Stampboards Post - Senior Guru
Posts: 3626
Joined: 18 Oct 2011 23:28
Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by Stewie1980 »

imworld wrote:Yes they are. How did you know? Did you have the same problems too?
I have so many Thai sheets I recognized the sizes of the stamps and the sheet layouts. :)

But none of mine has a rust or foxing problem. I bought allmost all of them from PO's and dealers in Thailand.

99% of those sheets don't have much value and can be easily replaced, so you can try soaking them in hot water. If it not helps just bin them.
User avatar
stamps101
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
GOLD Star Super Posting Stampboarder!
Posts: 289
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 15:19
Location: Canada

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by stamps101 »

I found this thread to be quite interesting and clearly a very important topic, especially for folks dealing with certain climates. I am in a relatively dry part of Canada that experiences temperature extremes of -35C to +30C but is not particularly humid.

That said, my stamp area is in the basement in a relatively contained room and I am now questioning the current ventilation and humidity. The ventilation I can work on simply by leaving my door open more often but is there an ideal humidity range? I’m curious how some of you have combated the issue?

I also find it interesting how certain countries have stamps more prone to it - is this more related to where the stamps originated from and likely spent most of their life or more to do with paper type and production methods?

The responses in here so far are much appreciated - excellent topic.
User avatar
Allanswood
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 17128
Joined: 02 Dec 2009 11:59
Location: Goulburn NSW Australia

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by Allanswood »

You want to aim to stay below 28 Celsius and between 40-55% humidity.

Paper needs some moisture so very low humidity will eventually cause your paper to crack and split.

Constantly very high will activate spores.

Stored in a reasonably stable room in an album with a slipcase is the way to go.

The need to protect paper for printing, was the reason Air Conditioning was invented. :D
Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"
User avatar
Ubobo.R.O.
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 96443
Joined: 28 Dec 2017 11:07
Location: Sunny Golden Beach Queensland.

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Rust or toning? That is the question. :lol: :lol:

Image
Full time horse non-whisperer, post box searcher and lichen covered granite rock percher. Gee I'm handsome !
You gottem birds, lighthouses, butterflies, shells, maps, flags and heads on stamps ? Me wantem !
User avatar
Global Admin
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 76442
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone, Oz
Contact:

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by Global Admin »

Coffee or water stains at left, and paper overlay etc transfer (you can read the text on that) diagonally in centre.
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
ViccyVFU
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 5468
Joined: 23 Feb 2018 23:49
Location: Harrogate, UK

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by ViccyVFU »

Ubobo.R.O. wrote:Rust or toning? That is the question.
Well, yes, its exactly as the Sheriff describes....

An office counterstamp (coffee stains), plus a smudge off a greasy wrapper containing dried "mixed fruits".
Image
You may notice the bleed stain is actually the same company as the telegram is addressed to: S Child, Wamuran, Queensland.

Not sure if they exist anymore (its one of those tricky names to google).
Anyway you seem to import 90% of every bag nowadays .....
Image
... but if they do still harvest and pack, they are probably drying something exotic from Queensland, such as these delicacies ....
Image
Not an envelope you'd want to bring near anything valuable, unless sealed tight in its own little "oil container". :D
User avatar
Ubobo.R.O.
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 96443
Joined: 28 Dec 2017 11:07
Location: Sunny Golden Beach Queensland.

Re: The difference between rust and toning?

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Very entertaining. Thankyou Tim. Mr Childs grew oranges.
Full time horse non-whisperer, post box searcher and lichen covered granite rock percher. Gee I'm handsome !
You gottem birds, lighthouses, butterflies, shells, maps, flags and heads on stamps ? Me wantem !
User avatar
ebay
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 100538
Joined: 22 Jul 2018 20:44
Location: West Midlands UK

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by ebay »

Brought this block a while back and have kept it away from my others as don't want the rust to spread and infect my other stamps.

But is it rust ? or am i getting paranoid !!!

Image

Front looks ok

Image
User avatar
Global Admin
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 76442
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone, Oz
Contact:

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by Global Admin »

If that heavily lightened off scan of the face looks ''OK'', to you, all is well, as clearly your condition standards differ from the rest of the planet. :mrgreen:

Of course it is rust/foxing.

One stamp has 5 or 6 clearly obvious thins, so washing the gum off NOW in a bowl of hot water is what most sane owners would be doing, without it being suggested.

Shallow thins often do not show then, as it sometimes is only the gum layer that is thinned, not the paper. Only one looks deep to me.
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
ebay
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 100538
Joined: 22 Jul 2018 20:44
Location: West Midlands UK

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by ebay »

Global Administrator wrote:If that heavily lightened off scan of the face looks ''OK'', to you, all is well, as clearly your condition standards differ from the rest of the planet. :mrgreen:
I was asking about the rust/foxing I wasn't going to add a scan of the front as there was no need but guessed i'd be moaned at for not doing so, as i didn't have a scan of the front i took it from the site.

Below is a scan of its true colour:

Image

You're correct my standards are or must be low, but we collect what we can afford

Finding perfect unmounted mint full original gum perfect centered post office fresh Queen Victoria stamps is difficult.
User avatar
Global Admin
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 76442
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone, Oz
Contact:

Re: Rust and Foxing on stamps .... how to store them ...?

Post by Global Admin »

Whatever floats your boat.

This is infested with a living, growing cancer. It will get far worse each year, and WILL likewise infect ANYTHING placed remotely near it, as rust and foxing spread by airborne spores.

In your expert view this looks "OK" on the front, and that is your perfect right to hold that strange view. You might also like stamps with heavy thins - your choice. 99.9% of collectors like neither thins or heavy foxing, but hey, there are no rules.

As to the utter lunacy of seeking to collect anything from the 1800s from anywhere with "MUH ORIGINAL GUM", well that has been covered on 100 other threads here from 100 other lemming members, who of course all will lose their shirts when they sell.

100s of regummers are driving Maseratis thanks to that totally loopy fab, and 1000s of dodgy ebay sellers too - they thank you and others for your strange passion. :lol: :lol:

Glen
.
Click HERE to see superb RARE & unusual stamps - FIXED low nett prices, high rez pix + NO 20% buyer fees!
User avatar
rory462
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Posts: 77
Joined: 04 Jan 2019 04:50
Location: Petworth, Sussex, UK

foxing/ mould

Post by rory462 »

I have just come back from Australia -marvellous place. But I think I missed a conversation about getting marks off a mint stamp. Can anybody help with this for QV stamps?
User avatar
jivie798
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 33
Joined: 03 Mar 2020 20:57
Location: Seri Kembangan, Malaysia

Salvage questions. The foxed and toned.

Post by jivie798 »

Foxing and toning. I am starting to believe this is becoming a taboo subject to many experienced philatelist. :lol: I've looked up into this extensively discussed topic.

Recently got back my old stockbook from my parents home. Absolutely devastated, two words to describe my feeling and old childhood collection. Almost all stamps, were are either foxed or toned. Stockbook was MADE IN CHINA, so now I know (death sentence by the words of Mr. Glen). But I intend to best restore them (not to their former glory) and store them separately. Because these are sentimental stuff.

Image

Image

These are some from the 1956 state definitives. Some badly foxed, toned and torn. Heck, even pen cancelled.

So now I need some help here. Are these safe for some hot wash and very mild bleach? I worried if these series are chalk coated.

Earlier coconut definitive series were started out from Chalky papers. Ref: Malaya-stamp-paper
Recently rekindled with an old hobby after a midlife crisis.
Post Reply

Return to “NO question is too basic or silly - you ask - we WILL help you with it!”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests