"Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

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"Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by tallanent »

Thought the above flyer for a new book might be of interest to some members here.

I have just placed my order for a couple of copies :D

All contact details are on the bottom of the flyer ...

ALLAN

Mod Note: Image removed as it contained personal information
Last edited by JonEboy on 05 Jun 2023 19:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland

Post by honza »

Ahoj Allan!

An interesting publication.

Do you know if the entries will be priced or have a rarity code?

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland" Carter

Post by Erinmania »

Honza

There is no pricing or rarity guide but it is a very comprehensive listing.
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland" Carter

Post by honza »

Ahoj Erinmania,

Thank you for that information.

Perhaps it would be interesting to initiate some discussion of Krag postmarks in a separate thread in the appropriate section?

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland" Carter

Post by Erinmania »

Paul Carter has published a 2nd revised edition of Krag Machine Postmarks in digital format as a free PDF download.

Available here www.britishpostmarksociety.org.uk/publications
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland" Carter

Post by honza »

Erinmania wrote: 20 Aug 2022 22:15 Paul Carter has published a 2nd revised edition of Krag Machine Postmarks in digital format as a free PDF download.

Available here www.britishpostmarksociety.org.uk/publications
Ahoj Paul,

Thank you for posting that link and kudos to those who have provided it free to everyone.

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland" Carter

Post by honza »

Ahoj everyone!

I bought this GB KEVII newspaper wrapper because of the crispness & clarity of the postmark.
GB ½d green KEVII newspaper wrapper with LONDON Columbia machine cancellation of 1905
GB ½d green KEVII newspaper wrapper with LONDON Columbia machine cancellation of 1905
GB LONDON Columbia machine cancellation of 1905
GB LONDON Columbia machine cancellation of 1905
I thought it was a Krag, but later investigation suggests it is a Columbia. Is that correct?

Cheers,

Honza
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland" Carter

Post by Erinmania »

Definitely a Columbia machine cancellation.
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland" Carter

Post by honza »

Thank you Paul for the confirmation.

Honza
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by Cemilb »

I wonder whether these machines were used outside of the UK, even if on experimental basis.

The German & Austrian Alpine Society, based in Vienna, sent its publication to its members in Austria and Germany in newspaper wrappers. From 1903 through 1938, they mailed large numbers of magazines. The quantity of magazines sent was large enough that they looked for ways to optimize production and mailing. One way they did this was by using precancels.

Starting 1907, they used precancels that were applied by hand:
Austria DuOAV 1908-07-14-105-01 a.jpg
You can tell the cancel is a precancel, because the address label overlays the cancel.
Starting 1910, the precancels were printed:
Austria DuOAV 1916-10-31-213-01 a #Regular.jpg
During all these years, they used the following precancel only for a single mailing on May 31, 1907.
Austria DuOAV 1907-05-31-105-02 a #Cancel type unusual.jpg
I am wondering whether this cancel was created by a Krag machine or did they have similar machines in Germany or some other continental country. Does anyone have any information?

By the way, thank you very much to Erinmania for posting the link to the Krag book, it was very informative. And, of course, thanks to Paul Carter to make his book available as a PDF for free.

Thanks,
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by Erinmania »

The short answer to your question is yes. Krag machines were used in countries other than GB. I know they were used in India and Russia which at that time included Finland and the Baltic States and also for a short period in the USA although those are quite scarce. A worldwide collector would be able to add further counties.

Seemingly after the end of World War 1 in 1918 the Krag machines faded from use.

Your 3rd illustration does appear to be a Krag machine cancellation although it is possible this may be a type of rotary canceller.
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by Cemilb »

Erinmania wrote: 26 Aug 2023 06:25 The short answer to your question is yes. Krag machines were used in countries other than GB. I know they were used in India and Russia which at that time included Finland and the Baltic States and also for a short period in the USA although those are quite scarce. A worldwide collector would be able to add further counties.

Seemingly after the end of World War 1 in 1918 the Krag machines faded from use.

Your 3rd illustration does appear to be a Krag machine cancellation although it is possible this may be a type of rotary canceller.
Thank you so much for the information.
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by Global Admin »

Cemilb wrote: 25 Aug 2023 22:44
I wonder whether these machines were used outside of the UK, even if on experimental basis.
Krag were used here for decades, and this is one example -
AMark wrote: 24 Jun 2020 09:18 Stamp News December 2006

Woodchip-free Zone



Image
Figure 10. Wish that all slogan cancels came like this

Australian slogan cancellations were first generally introduced in 1917. They deserve to be more widely collected, but appear to have been well and truly trumped by their cds (circular date stamp) relative. This considerable disparity in popularity I find puzzling, given that Robin Occleshaw, the esteemed Philatelic researcher, produced a definitive two-volume work on the subject between 1989-91. Australian Slogan Cancellations 1917-1990 is a readily available publication, and ownership is enough in itself to inspire the owner to take up this collecting challenge.

Again, if owning rarities for a 'song' gets your Philatelic juices flowing, slogan cancel collecting (on cover only, of course) just might be for you. Figure 10 is a good example of its kind, and I wish all slogans were this clearly applied. With patience, however, very good strikes of most slogan types (be warned, there are many) can be found. One could form a collection purely of the various types and dies of Air Mail slogans which abounded from the 1930s to 1950s. Figure 10 is a Krag machine type with stylised 'airplane' in use at Rockhampton (Qld). Value : This good $30 - typical single-strike $10 (stamp off cover, forget it).
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by Cemilb »

Global Admin wrote: 26 Aug 2023 11:26
Cemilb wrote: 25 Aug 2023 22:44
I wonder whether these machines were used outside of the UK, even if on experimental basis.
Krag were used here for decades, and this is one example -
AMark wrote: 24 Jun 2020 09:18 Stamp News December 2006

Woodchip-free Zone



Image
Figure 10. Wish that all slogan cancels came like this

Australian slogan cancellations were first generally introduced in 1917. They deserve to be more widely collected, but appear to have been well and truly trumped by their cds (circular date stamp) relative. This considerable disparity in popularity I find puzzling, given that Robin Occleshaw, the esteemed Philatelic researcher, produced a definitive two-volume work on the subject between 1989-91. Australian Slogan Cancellations 1917-1990 is a readily available publication, and ownership is enough in itself to inspire the owner to take up this collecting challenge.

Again, if owning rarities for a 'song' gets your Philatelic juices flowing, slogan cancel collecting (on cover only, of course) just might be for you. Figure 10 is a good example of its kind, and I wish all slogans were this clearly applied. With patience, however, very good strikes of most slogan types (be warned, there are many) can be found. One could form a collection purely of the various types and dies of Air Mail slogans which abounded from the 1930s to 1950s. Figure 10 is a Krag machine type with stylised 'airplane' in use at Rockhampton (Qld). Value : This good $30 - typical single-strike $10 (stamp off cover, forget it).

Thanks. Very interesting.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, I will say that AMark's comment "(On cover only, of course)" should have been "(On cover and postal stationery only, of course)" I presume that these can also be found on postcards, wrappers, etc. As a matter of fact, the cancels on the following newspaper wrappers seem to be Krag cancellations, although I might be wrong, because I have not yet looked into these enough to be more authoritative.
GB P B COW B-pai45-WS11-01 a.jpg
GB SEASON TICKET K-sed30-WS11-01 b detail.jpg
As I look at these, I feel that a study of cancellations on GB stamps or one of several other countries would be an interesting study area. For example, I have been thinking about precancels and wondering whether the following is a precancel (as an eBay seller claimed):
GB MORNING POST K-mor10-WS4-01 b indicium and cancel.jpg
Best,
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by Erinmania »

With regard to Ireland, Krag machines with slogan cancellations were used periodically until 1951.

Krag machines operating with slogan postmarks were located in Cork, Galway, Kilkenny, Waterford, Monaghan and Tralee .
Dublin also used Krag machines but none are known with slogan postmarks.

Such postmarks in good condition are underrated and with good clear impressions quite scarce.
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by Erinmania »

Cemilb wrote: 26 Aug 2023 12:51
Global Admin wrote: 26 Aug 2023 11:26
Cemilb wrote: 25 Aug 2023 22:44
I wonder whether these machines were used outside of the UK, even if on experimental basis.
Krag were used here for decades, and this is one example -
AMark wrote: 24 Jun 2020 09:18 Stamp News December 2006

Woodchip-free Zone



Image
Figure 10. Wish that all slogan cancels came like this

Australian slogan cancellations were first generally introduced in 1917. They deserve to be more widely collected, but appear to have been well and truly trumped by their cds (circular date stamp) relative. This considerable disparity in popularity I find puzzling, given that Robin Occleshaw, the esteemed Philatelic researcher, produced a definitive two-volume work on the subject between 1989-91. Australian Slogan Cancellations 1917-1990 is a readily available publication, and ownership is enough in itself to inspire the owner to take up this collecting challenge.

Again, if owning rarities for a 'song' gets your Philatelic juices flowing, slogan cancel collecting (on cover only, of course) just might be for you. Figure 10 is a good example of its kind, and I wish all slogans were this clearly applied. With patience, however, very good strikes of most slogan types (be warned, there are many) can be found. One could form a collection purely of the various types and dies of Air Mail slogans which abounded from the 1930s to 1950s. Figure 10 is a Krag machine type with stylised 'airplane' in use at Rockhampton (Qld). Value : This good $30 - typical single-strike $10 (stamp off cover, forget it).

Thanks. Very interesting.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, I will say that AMark's comment "(On cover only, of course)" should have been "(On cover and postal stationery only, of course)" I presume that these can also be found on postcards, wrappers, etc. As a matter of fact, the cancels on the following newspaper wrappers seem to be Krag cancellations, although I might be wrong, because I have not yet looked into these enough to be more authoritative.

Image

Image

As I look at these, I feel that a study of cancellations on GB stamps or one of several other countries would be an interesting study area. For example, I have been thinking about precancels and wondering whether the following is a precancel (as an eBay seller claimed):

Image

Best,
Your London Newspaper wrappers are postmarked with a Columbia machine cancellation not by a Krag machine.
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Shown elsewhere but quite a nice "Krag" with two town dies showing the cross mark on alternate ones.

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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by Erinmania »

In use for two months only in 1918. Cork "Feed The Guns With WAR Bonds " Very scarce and no apology for the impression shown.
Only use at Cork of a Krag Machine slogan postmark.
Only use at Cork of a Krag Machine slogan postmark.
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by OldDuffer1 »

Another Krag Machine Slogan cancel- this one preceding the previous- in fact this was one of the first of the regular types of slogan cancels issued (Dec.1917 to Oct.1918).

Image
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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by Cemilb »

Erinmania wrote: 26 Aug 2023 21:16
Cemilb wrote: 26 Aug 2023 12:51
Global Admin wrote: 26 Aug 2023 11:26
Cemilb wrote: 25 Aug 2023 22:44
I wonder whether these machines were used outside of the UK, even if on experimental basis.
Krag were used here for decades, and this is one example -
AMark wrote: 24 Jun 2020 09:18 Stamp News December 2006

Woodchip-free Zone



Image
Figure 10. Wish that all slogan cancels came like this

Australian slogan cancellations were first generally introduced in 1917. They deserve to be more widely collected, but appear to have been well and truly trumped by their cds (circular date stamp) relative. This considerable disparity in popularity I find puzzling, given that Robin Occleshaw, the esteemed Philatelic researcher, produced a definitive two-volume work on the subject between 1989-91. Australian Slogan Cancellations 1917-1990 is a readily available publication, and ownership is enough in itself to inspire the owner to take up this collecting challenge.

Again, if owning rarities for a 'song' gets your Philatelic juices flowing, slogan cancel collecting (on cover only, of course) just might be for you. Figure 10 is a good example of its kind, and I wish all slogans were this clearly applied. With patience, however, very good strikes of most slogan types (be warned, there are many) can be found. One could form a collection purely of the various types and dies of Air Mail slogans which abounded from the 1930s to 1950s. Figure 10 is a Krag machine type with stylised 'airplane' in use at Rockhampton (Qld). Value : This good $30 - typical single-strike $10 (stamp off cover, forget it).

Thanks. Very interesting.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, I will say that AMark's comment "(On cover only, of course)" should have been "(On cover and postal stationery only, of course)" I presume that these can also be found on postcards, wrappers, etc. As a matter of fact, the cancels on the following newspaper wrappers seem to be Krag cancellations, although I might be wrong, because I have not yet looked into these enough to be more authoritative.

Image

Image

As I look at these, I feel that a study of cancellations on GB stamps or one of several other countries would be an interesting study area. For example, I have been thinking about precancels and wondering whether the following is a precancel (as an eBay seller claimed):

Image

Best,
Your London Newspaper wrappers are postmarked with a Columbia machine cancellation not by a Krag machine.
Thank you for the clarification. Until 2-3 days ago, I had never heard of "Krag machines."

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Re: "Krag machine postmarks of Great Britain & Ireland"

Post by norvic »

When it comes to postal history, the term “on cover” is widely used to encompass all forms of postal communication - letter, card, newspaper wrapper, parcel wrapper piece, etc. it doesn’t, of course, include form such as telegram or mail redirection where the fee is paid in stamps.

It’s only really necessary to distinguish in auction listings and competition entries where the judges can also be pedantic.
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