1911 Queensland 1d QV with special RAILWAY PERFORATION anyone have it?

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1911 Queensland 1d QV with special RAILWAY PERFORATION anyone have it?

Post by TimjDexter »

Nice stamp being offered by Prestige. I think it is 2nd in the row.

Here is my copy which I place as position 4.

Image

I can't remember another ever being offered at auction. Gary Watson reckons 2-3 copies exist in private hands. Who else has a copy?

Interestingly the Queensland book has an image of the back of a block of 4 with this perforation. Where is it from?
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Re: 1d queensland railway perf

Post by jugoslavija_post »

What is the "railway" perf?
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Brummie »

Good question Erik, this is what the auction site says.....The perforator used was converted from its previous role perforating Railway Stamps. The ACSC states "A considerable number of sheets were perforated with this machine but the results were so poor that only a small number of sheets were issued".
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by TimjDexter »

The railway perforator was a temporary machine used to perforate some 1d and 3d values. All the 3d were destroyed, but a few 1d stamps were issued.

The perforator was converted fro a machine used to perforate railway stamps with an L. When converted this gave characteristic uneven perfs at the top and bottom of each stamp.

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jugoslavija_post »

A very interesting machine. :!: Thank you.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by DJM »

You'd almost be tempted to throw the stamps away thinking they were damaged if you didn't know about that particular machine & it's perfing oddities.

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

It would be a very expensive mistake DJM :-). The reserve price is $1,500!
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

TimjDexter wrote:Nice stamp being offered by Prestige. I think it is 2nd in the row.

Here is my copy which I place as position 4.

Image

I can't remember another ever being offered at auction. Gary Watson reacons 2-3 copies in private hands. Who else has a copy?

Interestingly the Queensland book has an image of the back of a block of 4 with this perforation. Where is it from?
Which Queensland book are you referring to?
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by TimjDexter »

Basset Hull. I'm not sure if there are any other Queensland books. This only covers the Chalons, however legend has it that a draft for a second volume was written but never published. Definitely the plates for the planned book exist. That's why your blogs are so useful, especially when you get sent scans of some wonderful items.

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

Thanks Tim, and thanks for the scan, I have access to the book but had no idea that this block was in there, not giving it a close look as it is mainly concerned with Chalons. Working on my blog is fun but time consuming. Eventually I hope to finish the second sidefaces and then move onto the third. I will eventually get around to adding the 1d railway perf but, given the amount of material I have, it is probably 5 to 10 years away!

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by AndrewWalker »

Tim, the second volume Basset Hull is not legend, the manuscript does exist
and is being used in part for a future book on Qld stamps. There is some
information in an article in "Philately from Australia" March 2012 P17 (the
journal of the Royal Philately Society of Victoria). I'm sure a lot more will come to light on this in the near future.

Andrew

PS there is some more on the "railway perf" in the ACSC on page 1/66.
The Royal collection has a mint pair and the White collection (Sydney) has a
strip of 3 and 20 used examples. A Prestige auction in the last year also
had several examples, will have a look...

Found it, auction 171

http://www.prestigephilately.com/cats.php?sortcode=qld&auctionnum=171

lots 555 ( 2 examples), 556 and 557
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by TimjDexter »

Yes there are a reasonable number of used copies, perhaps someone will reconstruct a row! But your information gets us to 7 mint copies of which 5 are institutional.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by TimjDexter »

It went for 6K. For a federal period stamp this must be the best buy of the year for someone.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

As the Auctioneer said, "a very solid result" and several times estimate!
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

I am pretty sure this is not a railway perf example but I am intrigued as to why the perf holes have not been separated cleanly. can anyone explain?

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Sort of looks like the perf pins just didn't perforate totally so there are a number of partials that could be carefully remove with a sharp pair of tweezers. Once that's done it may just be a normal side face I think.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

Thanks. I was surprised how few of these I have seen, perhaps in the past people removed the excess bits so that we don't see them that often anymore?
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Revenuer »

Here is a page from my Revenue Perfin Book.

The proof strikes below are one of two recorded the other is shown above from Bassett Hull.

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User: The Lowood Creamery Company

Dairy Products

Address: Adelaide St, Brisbane, QLD

Railway use only: Railway stamps from Lowood Creamery were used at Brisbane station only.

1902 Issue 1d, 3d, 6d. This perfin was in use for less than 12 months hence it's rarity.

Rarity Scale: 1902 issue 1d R4, 3d R4, 6d R3. Proof Pulls [Two of each recorded] R4.

Background: *The Lowood Creamery Company was registered on 23 February 1901 following a merger which included the long established Messers Howes Bros, who had built the first creamery in Queensland. The company had its head office in Adelaide Street Brisbane, with numerous factories and depots spread throughout Queensland.

The cream was carried to Lowood for manufacture and it was from this address the company derived its name. The company's country butter factories were established at Willowburn, Tiaro, Boonah, Lowood, and Beaudesert with cheese factories situated at Elbow Valley, Grey Mare, Tangan in the Warwick District, and also at Bringabilly near Pittsworth. The business was large and this required an extensive refrigerating plant as well as cold stores and offices which were all located at the Adelaide Street site. The company went into liquidation on 11 Sept 1912.

Related Patterns: Nil

* National Library of Australia.

Note: Other publications have incorrectly listed the address of the Location of the perforator as Lowood.

Device: Triple vertical head. Made by the Queensland Government Printer.

Note:In all other published works the 'L' perfin is listed as not having been used on the postage stamps of Queensland. Below shows the top two strips which were prepared by the Queensland Government Printer for postal use but, due to the fact that they did not line up with the size of the postage stamps, the pins were removed for perforation purposes.

It is further noted that only the pins within the stamp design were removed, leaving the pins within the horizontal, but slightly irregular perforation line. The perforation machine was put to service in 1911, but was found unsuitable, and it was quickly withdrawn with only a sheet or two released.

The perforation became known to philatelists as the 'Railway Perf' (10½ to 12½). This irregular perf is listed in the S.G. catalogue No. 313. So we have a situation where part of the L perfin was in fact used on a postage stamp, and could then by definition be included in a specialised perfin collection.


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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by TimjDexter »

Nice perfin. I want one! How long did it take you to find your copy?
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Revenuer »

Found 4 in 40 years
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Greg Ioannou »

TimjDexter wrote:Basset Hull. I'm not sure if there are any other Queensland books. This only covers the Chalons, however legend has it that a draft for a second volume was written but never published.
The draft of the second volume was offered for sale about 15 years ago for about $1,000 by a non-philatelic bookseller. I didn't have the money to pay for it at the time, and I have no idea what became of it. Anyone?

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Revenuer »

Butler had a copy, but he had it for 30yrs plus.

Volume II is at the printers the RPSV will be flogging it!
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

Good to hear Dave. Has it been edited to correct any errors? Or will it be published as is?
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by TimjDexter »

Put me down for a copy. I hope they have extensively edited it and added some good colour photos. if it is like the new halflength book or the new zealand Chalon book it will be great.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Revenuer »

Don't get to excited!

Ken S is the Author who took it upon himself to complete the work with input from most of us half serious Qld collectors and Geoff K is the editor so all will be fine.

Get your head into Spink UK and take that second mortgage out now! Griff is selling of his 'straight' Qld keeping his PS & Revs
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Greg Ioannou »

That's wonderful news! Are they reprinting Volume 1 as well?
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Revenuer »

Hi Greg

Long time no hear!

Not reprinting Vol 1 unfortunately but copies of Vol 1 do turn up on eBay, i picked another up a few weeks ago for $60, always good to tuck away.

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Greg Ioannou »

I have two copies of Vol 1 -- a ratty working copy, and a mint copy with uncut pages. A less-ratty working copy would be nice to have. Oh well. I guess I can always cut the pages. Seems a pity, though.

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Greg Ioannou »

And yes, long time no hear. Did you notice that Harmers are selling a collection of SA and WA revenues in their current sale?

http://www.hrharmer.com/auctions/AuctionLot.aspx?LotID=390625

Cheers,

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Revenuer »

I bound up a photocopy work book 40 yrs ago and its still going.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Revenuer »

Reading the description i would think 250 would pull it up, i will not bid blind and Harmers are known for being tight on graphics and the vendors miss out.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Reserve is $600.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

Did you see that the Alan Griffith's sale at Spink has 4 of these stamps for sale, including one on cover? Lot 1411-14

http://www.spink.com/auction.aspx?id=12043
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by TimjDexter »

Yes. The post card is ex prestige sale. Reported as only copy on cover.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

The 4 at the Griffiths auction have now sold for:

240 pounds http://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=120431411

200 pounds http://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=120431412

380 pounds http://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=120431413

The example on postcard sold for 480 pounds http://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=120431414

Even with the auctioner's fee of 20% this seems to be much less than the prices Prestige managed recently!
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by TimjDexter »

Here is my new copy of the perfin.

Image[/url]

Image

Cost me a small fortune on ebay. some one else recognised it, though I would have missed it without revenuers post. It seems to fit nicely with the pulls published in volume 1 and it is very similar to the previous post. Are there other values?

Tim
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by dwhopper »

I recognized it.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

The Spink postcard one (https://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=120431414) is back on sale! At Status stamps https://www.statusint.com/result.php?id=39

It sold at Spinks for 480 pounds and Status has a starting price of $2000! The auction is on 15 May.

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

I found it in an earlier sale as well. Premier Philately auction no 101/247 - 1911 "Railway Perforation" 10½-12½ 1d SG 313 gauging about 11.2x10.6 with irregular perfs at the top, tied to PPC by Maryborough duplex of JU26/11 (or JL26/11), the PPC with rounded corners & minor soiling, the stamp is fine & far more attractive than the crudely cancelled example that we sold in May 2002 for $784, significantly undercatalogued at £190. [Believed to be the only example used on an entire: unpriced thus by Gibbons]. Realised $950

https://www.stampboards.com/images/prestigephilately/pastauctions/cats/catxref_qld.htm
Image

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d railway perf, do you have one?

Post by lost biscuit »

Not sure, but it looks weird in the perfs.
railway perf behind.jpg
railway perf front.jpg
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d 'Railway Perf', do you have one?

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

Same question as lost biscuit:
sb_January2024018a.jpg
sb_January2024018b.jpg
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d 'Railway Perf', do you have one?

Post by jeremy29 »

This is the railway perf pull as shown in Basset Hull
img723-002.jpg
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d QV with special RAILWAY PERFORATION anyone have it?

Post by Global Admin »

Values in the huge A4 size brand new - ACSC Brusden White 'Australian States Federal Period 1901-1912' Catalogue. (Stock 385BJ) Many more recorded than a few years back.

P1060167.JPG


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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d QV with special RAILWAY PERFORATION anyone have it?

Post by jeremy29 »

sb_January2024018b.jpg
Thanks Glen. Hard to tell the year, but possibly 17 March 1910 which would put it outside the known dates. Is there a date on the back? The town on the date stamp is Brisbane
Last edited by jeremy29 on 19 Jan 2024 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d QV with special RAILWAY PERFORATION anyone have it?

Post by Global Admin »

I've asked the Louie the cat, and he says it is most CERTAINLY 17 MAR

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d QV with special RAILWAY PERFORATION anyone have it?

Post by jeremy29 »

img721-001.jpg
I earlier posted the railway perf pull from Basset Hull by mistake. Apologies. I meant to post the irregular perf example. Here it is
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d QV with special RAILWAY PERFORATION anyone have it?

Post by Global Admin »

PLEEEZ add attachments inline correctly - takes one more click of 'PLACE INLINE' for you - but 4 for me to do it each time. :evil:
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d QV with special RAILWAY PERFORATION anyone have it?

Post by agondocz »

Hi,
Cavendish Auctions lot 633: 1912 PERF. IRREGULAR COMPOUND 10 x 12½: 1d vermilion neatly cancelled by part Maryborough cds. Fine. ACSC Q15 $3,000. SG 313 £750. [Ex Alan Griffiths]. Estimate: £400

Note:The perforation was from a converted machine, formerly used for perforating railway stamps. Other than twenty used examples in the White collection in the Mitchell library the ACSC suggest that less than twenty other used examples are known. PHOTO ‐ see front cover.
Please note that the auction is available as a .pdf file only at the moment.

Best wishes,
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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d QV with special RAILWAY PERFORATION anyone have it?

Post by agondocz »

Hi,

I found two articles about this railway perforation listed on the American Philatelic Research Library database:

Author: Rev. James Mursell
Title: 1911 1d., irregular perforations
Page: 99
Source: The Philatelic Journal of Great Britain
Volume and Issue Number: 27 : 320
Publication date: Jul 1, 1917

Author: C.W.G. Crawford
Title: 1911 1d., irregular perforations [letter]
Page: 119
Source: The Philatelic Journal of Great Britain
Volume and Issue Number: 27 : 321
Publication date: Aug 1, 1917

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Re: 1911 Queensland 1d QV with special RAILWAY PERFORATION anyone have it?

Post by agondocz »

This article is from: The London Philatelist, April 1920, pp 88 - 90. According to the Royal Philatelic Society of London, the article is in the public domain.

Page 88:
sb_January2024026a.jpg
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