France and French Colonies stamps - Discussion Thread

gugusg · Post by **gugusg** » 22 Jul 2014 09:22

Hello,

Since this area is *not* wildly popular here, but some people are asking questions sometimes, I create this thread to regroup all stuff in one place.

This is for France stamps (classic to latest issue) and for Colonies / Post office abroad before independence!

If anyone want to discuss about new stuff, ask for specifics things, do not hesitate.

I will try to scan some time to time new stamps / blocks / etc !!!

Let's go folks!

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » 22 Jul 2014 10:14

Hi Gugusg

I will try to post some of my stamps on which I have questions

& I still have a lot of questions, just lack the time to scan everything

gugusg · Post by **gugusg** » 22 Jul 2014 17:05

Do not hesitate to post here your question !!

Here is the new "Baccarat" Bloc for the French salon of stamps.

3€ per stamps, sold at facial. The stamps have "powder of baccarat" on it !

Limited edition of 25 000 blocs

AKPhilately · Post by **AKPhilately** » 22 Jul 2014 21:18

Gugusg,

I have a question about Nouvelle Caledonie!

In 1966, several stamps were issued for the launching of satellites. On 17 January two stamps were issued (8f and 12f) and on 10 May a third one of 10f, depicting satellite D1. It's that third one my question is about.

My SG catalogue says that the stamp is engraved by C. Dutruns. I am quite sure that this is a typo for C. Durrens, but I would like to be 100% sure. I don't actually have the stamp so can't check the name in the design.

Can you confirm whether that particular D1 satellite stamp is engraved by C. Durrens?

Hope so!

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 22 Jul 2014 22:25

Very good idea starting a thread gugusg. I'm only in the starting fase with this area, but I'm sure I will have questions later on. And when I get some nice things to show I will put it up.

JonEboy · Post by **JonEboy** » 23 Jul 2014 00:54

AKPhilately wrote: Can you confirm whether that particular D1 satellite stamp is engraved by C. Durrens?

Hope so!

Hi AKPhilately,

In the absence of gugusg I can confirm that it was in fact Durrens. The design was issued in France (Y&T 1476) and then used across the colonies with the name and value tablet changed.

If I wasn't having severe problems with the scanner right now

I would post an image of the aforementioned stamp.....

Jon

memphre · Post by **memphre** » 23 Jul 2014 12:56

Here is an exert from the Maury catalogue for New Caledonia. It states the stamp was both designed and engraved by Durrens.

And here is a France stamp of the same design. You can read Durrens signature in the centre bottom. Sorry, I don't have the New Caledonia stamp available.

Memphre

gugusg · Post by **gugusg** » 23 Jul 2014 16:23

JonEboy wrote:
AKPhilately wrote: Can you confirm whether that particular D1 satellite stamp is engraved by C. Durrens?

Hope so!
Hi AKPhilately,

In the absence of gugusg I can confirm that it was in fact Durrens. The design was issued in France (Y&T 1476) and then used across the colonies with the name and value tablet changed.

If I wasn't having severe problems with the scanner right now I would post an image of the aforementioned stamp.....

Jon

Hello,

Well everyone can respond, thank you for the response by the way !!

Vangelis1978 · Post by **Vangelis1978** » 23 Jul 2014 19:55

Hi all members

I would like to ask you if this 10c Liberty with the precancel is type I or II
I clearly see two lines under E.

could exist this?
if yes have some value?

Friendly Vangelis

Alastair · Post by **Alastair** » 23 Jul 2014 20:36

It is type II.
I don't know catalogue value but I reckon a few cents.

Vangelis1978 · Post by **Vangelis1978** » 23 Jul 2014 22:20

I suppose you have right,
but if someone have cat. just a look would be gretaful

JKA · Post by **JKA** » 23 Jul 2014 22:32

gugusg,

I came across a perfin stamp while sorting out my French stamps. Do have some info about the perfin?

gugusg · Post by **gugusg** » 24 Jul 2014 00:18

For perfins, a lot of different have been made, some have only a perf of difference.

The ultimate guide for that part is edited by "ANCOPER" association (you can find it's catalog sometimes on ebay or delcampe).

For yours, CN is probably "Credit du Nord" a big bank.

SG is often Societe générale
CL is often Credit Lyonnais

Sorry I do not have the catalog to have a look

JKA · Post by **JKA** » 24 Jul 2014 00:37

Merci

Perhaps I find that book in the future.

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 24 Jul 2014 00:46

Vangelis1978 wrote:Hi all members

I would like to ask you if this 10c Liberty with the precancel is type I or II
I clearly see two lines under E.

could exist this?
if yes have some value?

Friendly Vangelis

If it's hinged then €0,5 if MNH €3.

AKPhilately · Post by **AKPhilately** » 24 Jul 2014 01:00

Okay, just harking back for a moment to way back when; thanks for your answers re the Durrens question!

Greaden · Post by **Greaden** » 24 Jul 2014 02:29

I have a question about the imperforate stamps with drawn perforations from Obock and the French Somali Coast.

Who designed them? What thought went into them? What were the circumstances around their production?

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 25 Jul 2014 04:59

For my first picture post in this thread, I wanted to show one of the first stamps I bought as a single stamp (not collection) for my France collection. I thought the mark was so nice, so I had to buy it, and then I just hope you don't think I was crazy for buying it.

I paid £40 for it, which I think is a okay price?

JonEboy · Post by **JonEboy** » 25 Jul 2014 05:46

mads1983 wrote:For my first picture post in this thread, I wanted to show one of the first stamps I bought as a single stamp (not collection) for my France collection. I thought the mark was so nice, so I had to buy it, and then I just hope you don't think I was crazy for buying it.

I paid £40 for it, which I think is a okay price?

If you find another one for £40 please send it my way

Fabulous stamp, one I still don't have

Jon

gugusg · Post by **gugusg** » 25 Jul 2014 06:27

Yes fantastic stamp and good buy at 40£ if clean on the back !

gugusg · Post by **gugusg** » 25 Jul 2014 06:34

Greaden wrote:I have a question about the imperforate stamps with drawn perforations from Obock and the French Somali Coast.

Who designed them? What thought went into them? What were the circumstances around their production?

Obock : they are from 1893 / 1894
Somali Coast : Same date and some new stamps in 1902

I do not know the designer and why they have been issued

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 25 Jul 2014 07:23

JonEboy wrote:
mads1983 wrote:For my first picture post in this thread, I wanted to show one of the first stamps I bought as a single stamp (not collection) for my France collection. I thought the mark was so nice, so I had to buy it, and then I just hope you don't think I was crazy for buying it.

I paid £40 for it, which I think is a okay price?
If you find another one for £40 please send it my way

Fabulous stamp, one I still don't have

Jon

Thanks Jon, I will let you know if I find one more. I was also surprised it didn't attract more attention. Maybe there's not a lot of France collectors in Denmark

The back is totally clean gugusg, so I'm satisfied

Greaden · Post by **Greaden** » 25 Jul 2014 07:33

gugusg wrote:
Greaden wrote:I have a question about the imperforate stamps with drawn perforations from Obock and the French Somali Coast.

Who designed them? What thought went into them? What were the circumstances around their production?
Obock : they are from 1893 / 1894
Somali Coast : Same date and some new stamps in 1902

I do not know the designer and why they have been issued

Alas Maury is silent on the matter. I am tempted to make the trip to Paris archives to find an answer but should probably exhaust the resources of the APS first.

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » 27 Jul 2014 11:18

Here is my first question, and naturally it is a 'is this genuine?' question

The margins are a bit small, so normally I would assume it to be a trimmed French stamp, but is the cancel correct for a Scott French Colonies #44

Also as the Colonies stamp is much higher in catalog value makes it that much more likely to be a forgery.

I have other trimmed copies, but the France cancels give them away.

memphre · Post by **memphre** » 27 Jul 2014 14:00

mikeg wrote:Here is my first question, and naturally it is a 'is this genuine?' question

The margins are a bit small, so normally I would assume it to be a trimmed French stamp, but is the cancel correct for a Scott French Colonies #44

Also as the Colonies stamp is much higher in catalog value makes it that much more likely to be a forgery.

I have other trimmed copies, but the France cancels give them away.

Mike

I'm pretty sure this a «Paris - rue Taitbout» cancel, so a trimmed down France stamp, not a colonial. I'm not aware of colonial cancels with a street name for the period.

Memphre

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » 27 Jul 2014 14:07

Thank you Memphre

I did not realize that was 'Rue'- it looked to me like 'Kuh"

Another one for the forgery page 8)

gugusg · Post by **gugusg** » 27 Jul 2014 18:59

Not a forgery,

It is *NOT* a colonial cancel but colonial stamps could have french cancel on arrival. (Some colonial stamps have also be used in France).

But for this one, the margins are very close. You should try to put it over a french stamps and see if it is a trimmed one or not. (probably one at 95%)

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » 27 Jul 2014 23:57

Hi Gugusg

Here is a scan on top of another French stamp- I think this pretty much condemns my stamp

It is just too perfect.

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » 28 Jul 2014 00:03

Since the Obock & Djibouti imperfs have been mentioned I am scanning a few at the same time

The first was given to me as a forgery, but I can see nothing wrong with it

Next one used in Ethiopia 8)

Finally one that is revenue usage with a very fancy notary seal

Ceres · Post by **Ceres** » 28 Jul 2014 11:19

Hi,

Nothing wrong with the first one. The cancel is a telegraphic cancel
The second is cancelled from the French postal office in Harar in Ethiopia, opened in 1899 to 1904.

The "Negus" at the time granted 3 French concessions: Harar 1899, Addis Ababa 1904, and Dirre-Daoua 1906 within Ethiopia, in relation to the construction of a railway line between Addis ababa and Djibouti.

Your third one is indeed a fiscal cancel.

rsah6426 · Post by **rsah6426** » 28 Jul 2014 21:15

I'm not able identify which French colony this stamp belongs to (because of the heavy cancel). Can someone help ?

By the way, the spread of the cancel ink on numeric 3 of 3c looked interesting !

Ceres · Post by **Ceres** » 28 Jul 2014 21:27

Hi,

It is not a stamp from the colonies but one from France (1900)

Secondly it is in very bad shape and should be thrown away.

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 28 Jul 2014 21:28

Hello everybody in this France thread. I just wanted to show what arrived for me today

I'm very much looking forward to getting acquainted with them

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 28 Jul 2014 21:29

rsah6426 wrote:I'm not able identify which French colony this stamp belongs to (because of the heavy cancel). Can someone help ?

By the way, the spread of the cancel ink on numeric 3 of 3c looked interesting !

Ceres is right, if it was a colonial/territory stamp it would say the name of the place (f.x. Crete) where it say postes.

gugusg · Post by **gugusg** » 29 Jul 2014 00:32

mads1983 wrote:Hello everybody in this France thread. I just wanted to show what arrived for me today

I'm very much looking forward to getting acquainted with them

Nice !!

the only one I do not have is the last one !

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 29 Jul 2014 01:54

I bought them on amazon.fr, no problems at all. And they look fantastic and I'm sure they will be an excellent ressource. I only wish my french was better

But you can come far with google translate and some basic stamp knowlegde.

Is it normal for France and territory collectors to included Monaco and Andorra in their collections?

JonEboy · Post by **JonEboy** » 29 Jul 2014 05:22

mads1983 wrote:Hello everybody in this France thread. I just wanted to show what arrived for me today

I'm very much looking forward to getting acquainted with them

Congratulations on getting some new feet Mads. I do hope that you become acquainted with them soon

Whilst you are waiting perhaps you could read some of those catalogues on the floor

Jon

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 29 Jul 2014 06:22

Thanks Jon, I wanted some with a little more colour, but all they had was white so I took them

Ceres · Post by **Ceres** » 29 Jul 2014 11:16

Hi,

For Andorra and Monaco, it is just a question of doing what you want. Me, personally I don't collect them. But you'll find many French collectors enjoy the stamps from these two principalities.

Andorra is a Franco-Spanish principality, hence it's inclusion in "overseas French Territories", as for Monaco, there are a lot of ties with France and is very popular among French stamps collectors.

rsah6426 · Post by **rsah6426** » 29 Jul 2014 15:49

If someone is interested in Monaco, then just sharing some nice colour trial stamps (have about 50 of them) - all MUH, having "Musee du Timbre Poste / Palais de Monaco" marking on reverse side. (had posted them elsewhere earlier) ...

Reverse side :

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 29 Jul 2014 16:25

Ceres wrote:Hi,

For Andorra and Monaco, it is just a question of doing what you want. Me, personally I don't collect them. But you'll find many French collectors enjoy the stamps from these two principalities.

Andorra is a Franco-Spanish principality, hence it's inclusion in "overseas French Territories", as for Monaco, there are a lot of ties with France and is very popular among French stamps collectors.

I also think I will start out just with France and colonies, and then maybe at a later time add them on.

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 03 Aug 2014 05:09

After really getting started on my France and area collections, I bought a mixed box from a Danish auction house with different small collections from the colonies (all pre-independences). Right now I'm working on Grand Liban (Greater Libanon). But I'm having trouble with the differences between the 2 types in the first series.

Is this 2 different types of surcharges?

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 03 Aug 2014 05:15

In Maury it says about the 2 types:

Type I: boucle supérieure du "C" barrée
Type II: boucle supérieure et boucle inférieure du "C" barrées.

which roughly translate to:

Type I: upper loop of the "C" crossed
Type II: upper loop and lower loop of the "C" crossed out.

But I was hoping someone had an example I could see?

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 06 Aug 2014 04:27

While I'm waiting for answer on my Libanon question, I wanted to show a cover I picked up recently mostly because of the clean crisp cancellation. Hope you all like it. For 7 Euro I think it was a nice deal.

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 06 Aug 2014 04:33

Another one here from Alsace-Lorraine, that I found cheap.

memphre · Post by **memphre** » 06 Aug 2014 08:56

mads1983 wrote:While I'm waiting for answer on my Libanon question, I wanted to show a cover I picked up recently mostly because of the clean crisp cancellation. Hope you all like it. For 7 Euro I think it was a nice deal.

Nice cover. You may have noticed the letter «F» in a circle at the right near the top. This letter identifies a small village where the letter was picked up by the mailman in his round. These letter stamps were kept in each village post box, so this mark was applied immediately upon collection. The circular date cancel was only applied later at the post office in the central village for the district. Some of these letters have not been localized to a specific village. They are the basis for interesting collections.

Memphre

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 06 Aug 2014 16:11

Very interresting Memphre, I didn't know that about the F mark, I just thought the cancel looked good, but that added a little extra to the letter.

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 06 Aug 2014 19:07

Hello everybody

I was hoping someone could help me with a question. I`m looking at Levant in my Maury catalogue and under the series from 1902-1903 under the 1,2 and 3c values it says papier GC (e.g. Levant no. 9c). What does papier GC mean?

Hope someone can help. Greetings Mads

Alastair · Post by **Alastair** » 06 Aug 2014 19:13

GC stands for Grande Consommation and refers to cheap paper used for example during the war years. It is often very easily recognisable as it is not white. This paper is frequent with the Semeuse series also.

mads1983 · Post by **mads1983** » 06 Aug 2014 19:21

Thanks Alastair. So will it have a yellowish colour or any other recognisable colour?