Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

There are some superb and incredibly useful reference books, and catalogues out there. And tools to measure perforations or paper thickness or LED magnifiers etc Please add your new discoveries - and recommendations to this forum. As in all forums, you can post photos of your favourites and recommendations.

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Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by muttly2011 »

Can anybody tell me the best reference/s to obtain catalogue values for the following stamps please?

1. OS NSW perfins on kangaroo and KGV stamps
2. OS NSW perfins on NSW state stamps
3. OS perfins on Australian state stamps
4. T perfins on roos and Tasmania stamps
5. S.A. perfins on S.A state stamps
6. W.A perfins on W.A state stamps
7. Official perfins such as G NSW, WA on other predecimal Australian stamps

Thanks,
Martin
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies

Post by Global Admin »

No such animal sadly.

Yvert prices 'OS NSW' on Roos etc.

How accurate is anyone's guess.

Cost of an Yvert out here ......................... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by pelmen »

Similarly, are there any good references for Australian official perfins (not for values). Something perhaps shows types and usage periods. I used to think they were only found on stamps up to the 1960s but have others much more recent. I already have a locally produced private perfin catalogue which is great, but haven't found any good references (printed or online) to cover the officials.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by kuikka »

May be this is of some help. No quarantees that it contains everything but it seems to have quite much information on Australian state official perfins.

http://australianstrampcatalogue.com/Officials.php

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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by pelmen »

Nice find Kimmo even at a quick glance it has information I have been looking for that will help me sort my official perfins. Thanks!
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by dwhopper »

The referenced site (http://australianstrampcatalogue.com/Officials.php) is a bit crude and limited. Looks a bit like a first time amateur effort.

And there is a catalogue Australian Official Perfins, compiled by David Andersen. I have no idea about who might still have these in stock. Very superior reference, excluding VG. Would be a great web page.

VG Perfins are covered by a book (several different editions) by Toop.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by kuikka »

dwhopper wrote:The referenced site (http://australianstrampcatalogue.com/Officials.php) is a bit crude and limited. Looks a bit like a first time amateur effort.

And there is a catalogue Australian Official Perfins, compiled by David Andersen. I have no idea about who might still have these in stock. Very superior reference, excluding VG. Would be a great web page.

VG Perfins are covered by a book (several different editions) by Toop.
Thank you for the information on this perfins site. It seems to have very nice listing of state perfins on Kangaroos (much better than the site I posted). It also has lots of background information on perfins as well as revenue perfins.

However, I may have missed it but I did not see any listing of state officials beyond Kangaroos. If there is, please give me a direct link. Also the reference books you mentioned are nice to know, but at this point totally unreachable to me.

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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by kuikka »

pelmen wrote:Nice find Kimmo even at a quick glance it has information I have been looking for that will help me sort my official perfins. Thanks!
You are welcome. Should you run into any better listing, keep me posted. As part of my world wide collection I collect also Australian state official perfins but naturally am no specialist with them and do not have more than some 20 from NSW and Victoria. It has been buging me, too, that there seems to be no listing of them anywhere.

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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by dwhopper »

Find this book Australian Official Perfins, compiled by David Andersen for all states but Victoria.

Find Toop's book on Victoria VG perfins.

You will be overwhelmed with the volume of information.

BUT, as I said, I have no idea where to get these books which are likely out of print.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by pelmen »

dwhopper thanks for those references, I knew the information had to be out there but a whole book for VG? wow. will keep an eye out. these sort of books crop up from time to time.glad i dont have to consider writing one myself :)
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by Global Admin »

dwhopper wrote:Find this book Australian Official Perfins, compiled by David Andersen for all states but Victoria.

Find Toop's book on Victoria VG perfins.

You will be overwhelmed with the volume of information.

BUT, as I said, I have no idea where to get these books which are likely out of print.
Agree both very good, but long out of print. Brian Toop did several editions, as you say.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by m3006 »

Hi all - I just joined the Perfin Club of Australia and NZ - lots of great information and good people to deal with.

If you go to their site which can be found on the far RHS of the home page of http://www.perfins.com.au/ you will get contact details for the Secretary David Coath.

You can also buy a copy of the David Anderson book and details of where to get the Toop book (and others) as well.

So, follow the link and enjoy!

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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by Bunge »

Hi Stampers, I have literally spent hours and hours trying to find info on Victorian OS perforations and have hit a brick wall..

I have the 2017 SG Catalogue and The Stamps of Victoria by Geoff Kellow, but cannot find any info on an inverted OS.. Plenty of OS info in the South Australian section (1½ pages) in the SG Catalogue..

I believe this to be the real deal, it came into my possession some years back in one of the ebay Lots I won from USA.. It came with about 1,000 other Vic stamps of which I wanted to pour through for the Barred Numerals.. So nobody stood to gain any money from it..

I never noticed it until today as I was checking watermarks it jumped right out at me, so to speak..

Watermark is Crown over A and perfs are 12 X 12½.. It is cancelled 19th Feb 1?, so 10,11, 12 or possibly 13..

I apologise for the quality of the pic as it was taken on my phone and transferred, my printer/scanner isn't recognized by my new Laptop running Win. 10..

I am wondering as to how rare this is.. Any information would be appreciated..

Image

Cheers Bunge :P
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by Stephan »

Bunge

The old scanner/windows 10 software is relatively easily fixed. If you still have the old software disk then install it. Make a note of the file path to which it was installed and add that path to the path statement -

System settings
edit the system environment variables
if the "advanced" tab is selected then click on the Environment Variables button at the bottom of the pop-up
select the "Path" line and click on edit
Select "New" - copy and paste software path here

Restart laptop - the scanner "should" now work - My Canon lide does

As to the perfin - I can't offer definitive assistance on that front except to suggest that it's not all that unusual. Picture a junior clerk in a dungeon of an office given some sheets of stamps to run through a weird machine that makes holes in them. There's not that much of a premium on the old states stamps having perfins in them so value would be less than 10 bucks I suspect.

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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by Global Admin »

Bunge wrote:Hi Stampers, I have literally spent hours and hours trying to find info on Victorian OS perforations and have hit a brick wall..

I have the 2017 SG Catalogue and The Stamps of Victoria by Geoff Kellow, but cannot find any info on an inverted OS.. Plenty of OS info in the South Australian section (1½ pages) in the SG Catalogue..

I believe this to be the real deal, it came into my possession some years back in one of the ebay Lots I won from USA.. It came with about 1,000 other Vic stamps of which I wanted to pour through for the Barred Numerals.. So nobody stood to gain any money from it..

I never noticed it until today as I was checking watermarks it jumped right out at me, so to speak..

Watermark is Crown over A and perfs are 12 X 12½.. It is cancelled 19th Feb 1?, so 10,11, 12 or possibly 13..

I apologise for the quality of the pic as it was taken on my phone and transferred, my printer/scanner isn't recognized by my new Laptop running Win. 10..

I am wondering as to how rare this is.. Any information would be appreciated..

Image

Cheers Bunge :P
As it is post 1901 the superb ACSC 'States and Roos' volume will likely list and price it.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by Bunge »

Global Administrator wrote: As it is post 1901 the superb ACSC 'States and Roos' volume will likely list and price it.
Thanks Glen, now I at least know where to look.. It will probably answer a lot questions I have and will have about my State stamps..

Cheers Bunge :P
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by muttly2011 »

Bunge,

The 2004 ACSC Kangaroos and The Early Federal Period, 1901-1912, lists the various types of these stamps with official OS perfin.

The value is usually 2-3 times the price of the unpunctured stamps.

There is no mention or pricing of inverted OS perfin in the catalogue.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by Bunge »

Thanks Muttly, I have had emails with "mcgooley" who is a mentor of mine as far as Victorian stamps are concerned, she has never seen one..

I have now emailed David Coath who is an expert on Aust. perfins, waiting to see what he has to say..

Here is another Thread related to perfins :- https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=41084


That's how I contacted David, I will repost in here what I find out :D

Cheers Bunge :P
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by Allanswood »

You'll need to do a much clearer (and flat!) scan of the stamp to get a good quality image for comparison.

However looking at some of mine as a reference, your holes don't line up close enough.

That may be due to paper distortion as your image doesn't look flat.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by Bunge »

Greg, if you read my post you'll see why the pic is as such..

And I have 100's of OS perfins on 1d Vic pinks and they line up I can assure you of that..

Cheers Bunge :P
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by steevh »

I've always wondered why Gibbons doesn't bother with the state perfins of the Commonwealth period and only has limited coverage of the states perfins. I guess its because no one else has produced a catalogue for them to copy.

Its quite annoying as I have an ever-increasing quantity of them and I'm sure some of them would have decent cat. values, if only I could check them up.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by Global Admin »

steevh wrote:I've always wondered why Gibbons doesn't bother with the state perfins of the Commonwealth period and only has limited coverage of the states perfins.

I guess its because no one else has produced a catalogue for them to copy.

Its quite annoying as I have an ever-increasing quantity of them and I'm sure some of them would have decent cat. values, if only I could check them up.
Well wonder no more. It is called "commercial reality" and "common sense".

There are already excellent handbooks on them as pointed out above, for the .1% of general collectors interested.

G NSW, OS NSW, and OS for NSW alone will be 1000s of listings, right up to Decimals. Same with VG. So lets say adding just those, before we add in T and SA and WA perfins, will double the thickness of the SG "AUSTRALIA" catalogue, doubling the price.

Then let me guess, if SG did just that, the likes of YOU will be the first to type - "SG "AUSTRALIA" is now 100 quid, not 50 quid for some strange reason - NO WAY am I paying that." :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by wilbaer »

We have been working on an online listing of all the standard Official Perfins for the Australian States for a couple of years now and hope that sometime in 2020, we will put the finishing touches to it and get it published.

It will not have catalogue values, as that is beyond the scope of what we were trying to achieve, namely to have a comprehensive list, cross-referenced with SG cat numbers, of what is out there in peoples collections in the current day so that any newcomers to collecting Australian State official perfins will have an easy place of reference. It will hopefully have some worth to the current more experienced collecting fraternity too.

Details to follow sometime next year, hopefully !

By the way, the VIC 1d inverted OS perfin is not easy to find at all, existing on Cr/A watermark paper as perf 12.4, but not, I don't think, on V/Cr paper. Happy to be proved wrong though and we can add it to the listings when they come out. it has also been found on the 3d Cr/A perf 12.4.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by kuikka »

wilbaer,

Thank you for this information and the hard work you have put in there. When you get online, please remember to advertise it well on Stampboards. At least I would not like to miss that information.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by Bunge »

wilbaer wrote:
By the way, the VIC 1d inverted OS perfin is not easy to find at all, existing on Cr/A watermark paper as perf 12.4, but not, I don't think, on V/Cr paper. Happy to be proved wrong though and we can add it to the listings when they come out. it has also been found on the 3d Cr/A perf 12.4.
I will amend my perf measurements - They could well be 11¾ x 12¼

Here is a conversation I had on Facebook in the Australian Perfin Group
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2382738398477287&set ... ater&ifg=1

Easier for you to read the details than me trying to explain a 2 party conversation

Cheers Bunge :P
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by Allanswood »

The link doesn't work.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by Bunge »

Allanswood wrote:The link doesn't work.
Don't know why it's not working for you, it works OK for me..

I checked it in Preview, worked so I posted it, and checked it just now and it's fine
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by Allanswood »

This is what I get:

Image
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by wilbaer »

Bunge wrote:
wilbaer wrote:
By the way, the VIC 1d inverted OS perfin is not easy to find at all, existing on Cr/A watermark paper as perf 12.4, but not, I don't think, on V/Cr paper. Happy to be proved wrong though and we can add it to the listings when they come out. it has also been found on the 3d Cr/A perf 12.4.
I will amend my perf measurements - They could well be 11¾ x 12¼

Here is a conversation I had on Facebook in the Australian Perfin Group
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2382738398477287&set ... ater&ifg=1

Easier for you to read the details than me trying to explain a 2 party conversation

Cheers Bunge :P
Hi Bunge,

It was me that replied to that post of yours about it being the Rotary perf that you have there, so I think all is clarified. Hope it all helped.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by wilbaer »

kuikka wrote:wilbaer,

Thank you for this information and the hard work you have put in there. When you get online, please remember to advertise it well on Stampboards. At least I would not like to miss that information.
Thanks kuikka - I shall certainly let people know about it here - this thread and probably its own thread when it happens. Don't hold your breath just yet - I thought it might happen in 2019, but never quite got there !!
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by kuikka »

Allanswood wrote:This is what I get:

Image
Same here.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by kuikka »

wilbaer wrote:
kuikka wrote:wilbaer,

Thank you for this information and the hard work you have put in there. When you get online, please remember to advertise it well on Stampboards. At least I would not like to miss that information.
Thanks kuikka - I shall certainly let people know about it here - this thread and probably its own thread when it happens. Don't hold your breath just yet - I thought it might happen in 2019, but never quite got there !!
And you tell me that only now when I have already turned blue! :lol:
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by GlenStephens »

dwhopper wrote:Find this book on stamp perfins - "Australian Official Perfins", compiled by David Andersen, for all states but Victoria.

Find Toop's book on Victoria VG perfins.

You will be overwhelmed with the volume of information.

BUT, as I said, I have no idea where to get these books, which are likely out of print.

Found one of the 100s of pages, large A4 sized, 2007 Second, and last, edition, in my stockroom if anyone needs this superb handbook. (Stock 793KQ)

RARE book. $A90 was what it was marked at. And I doubt you will find another on offer. GLOBALLY :mrgreen:

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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony sta

Post by Allanswood »

Price?

edit... going blind. If its still available and $90, then mine please. :D
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by Jezza »

Can we assume this item has long gone ??
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by StampLearner »

Hello to everyone !

Here is an image of two OS perfin stamps whose holes look distictly different. While the left one seems to have been punched from the front, the other was definitely punched from the back. Wasn't there a rule how to do it? Is the second OS a fake?
OS 14х14 compare.jpg
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by Global Admin »

Blunt pins versus sharp new pins.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by StampLearner »

Thank you for the answer.

Kind regards
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by John Russell - NZ »

Global Administrator wrote: 27 Nov 2019 09:31
steevh wrote:I've always wondered why Gibbons doesn't bother with the state perfins of the Commonwealth period and only has limited coverage of the states perfins.

I guess its because no one else has produced a catalogue for them to copy.

Its quite annoying as I have an ever-increasing quantity of them and I'm sure some of them would have decent cat. values, if only I could check them up.
Well wonder no more. It is called "commercial reality" and "common sense".

There are already excellent handbooks on them as pointed out above, for the .1% of general collectors interested.

G NSW, OS NSW, and OS for NSW alone will be 1000s of listings, right up to Decimals. Same with VG. So lets say adding just those, before we add in T and SA and WA perfins, will double the thickness of the SG "AUSTRALIA" catalogue, doubling the price.

Then let me guess, if SG did just that, the likes of YOU will be the first to type - "SG "AUSTRALIA" is now 100 quid, not 50 quid for some strange reason - NO WAY am I paying that." :roll: :roll: :roll:

As mentioned earlier, SG lists OS perfin Commonwealth issues but I can't see OS perfins listed for colonial issues in the Commonwealth period. SG 11th Edition has 4 pages for Official and Department overprints of South Australia. I doubt it would take that many pages to list all the colonial OS perfins issued after federation.

Seven Seas Stamps Australasian catalogue has handy charts on page 10 indicating which Commonwealth stamps exist as OS perfins (apparently 108 of them.) Similar charts for the colonial issues that were OS punctured from 1902 to 1913 is what I'd like to see. Do other catalogues, such as Scott or Rennicks, include any basic information for the colonial perfin issues?

Being a "cheapskate Nu Zealander", I'm not keen to pay 100 quid for a more comprehensive catalogue or to get a specialist book sent over when I'm only thinking of collecting perhaps less than 300 of these stamps - just the OS ones issued from 1902 to 1931. For the colonial issues, I'm only considering simplified album pages for those.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by kuikka »

Have you checked Yvert and Tellier? At least the old catalogues may have what you are looking for.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by John Russell - NZ »

kuikka wrote: 03 Dec 2021 03:02 Have you checked Yvert and Tellier? At least the old catalogues may have what you are looking for.
Thanks. Does anybody know whether there are digital editions of these with content about OS perfins? I have seen colonial issues being sold online with Scott numbers but don't know if the number refers to only the original issue.

I could try obtaining the references already mentioned in this thread if I patiently waited months to get them and held off collecting perfins for now. Patience isn't one of my virtues so I'd prefer to guess what they are if need be.

Hopefully, somebody here might have the reference books and be able to roughly guide us for each colony/ state. Given that these were issued from 1902, it's expected that only the issues in use in that era would have OS perfins.

Tasmania used mostly T though and, apart from a few revenue stamps, none were overprinted for Official use. I've never seen a TAS Chalon punctured T/ OS so I guess only Queen Victoria Fourth and Fifth Series and Pictorials were.

I'm not sure if any of the colonies issued OS perfins (before federation.) NSW apparently discontinued their OS overprinted stamps about 10 years prior to federation so I presume no OS perfins were issued in the interval.

To start with, I probably just have to accept having a few stamps that may not exist in my master list that I record bids and purchases in. I have that problem for recent issues anyway (as catalogues like SG are getting behind.)

A stamp dealer here told me that he never bothered with colonial perfin issues citing the lack of documentation. So I do get the impression that leading catalogues could do something more (without doubling in size, of course.)
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by kuikka »

1974 Y&T Outre-mer lists at least some of the early federal period OS perfins. I would expect that to be true with all Y&T catalogues older than that. Is it true with newer catalogues? I don't know. That is my newest Y&T that has Australia.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by John Russell - NZ »

muttly2011 wrote: 21 May 2018 15:39 Bunge,

The 2004 ACSC Kangaroos and The Early Federal Period, 1901-1912, lists the various types of these stamps with official OS perfin.

The value is usually 2-3 times the price of the unpunctured stamps.

There is no mention or pricing of inverted OS perfin in the catalogue.
Thanks so much. The guidance on CV is appreciated. Most the OS perfins are fairly inexpensive to buy online but a few (especially values 5/- upwards) will be rather expensive. This reference might sort me out as colonial issues with OS perfins were all in that early Federal period AFAIK. Does this catalogue have a e-edition? Maybe somebody with it could kindly list the ACSC number range for the OS perfins for just the colony issued stamps.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by dwhopper »

I think you are having a case of false economy. There is a very good Australian official perfins handbook. Compiled by David Anderson. Spend a little and get the overall best reference. No need to ask others to do your work and list stamps for you.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by Global Admin »

Don't be silly. BUY something???

His past posts clearly show John Russell - NZ seems especially keen for Seven Seas Stamps, and Catalogue makers etc, to spend time and money to custom design complex things to suit his EXACT and narrow needs, and then will likely politely ask someone to waste an hour, to send him the data free. :roll:
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by John Russell - NZ »

dwhopper wrote: 04 Dec 2021 10:14 I think you are having a case of false economy. There is a very good Australian official perfins handbook. Compiled by David Anderson. Spend a little and get the overall best reference. No need to ask others to do your work and list stamps for you.
Thanks. No doubt that's a superb work but it would be overkill for what I need as I'm simply collecting the OS perfins after federation. I'm picking it would take about 3 months to get it so I will just guess and be happy with that. :D
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by John Russell - NZ »

Global Administrator wrote: 04 Dec 2021 23:40 Don't be silly. BUY something???

His past posts clearly show John Russell - NZ seems especially keen for Seven Seas Stamps, and Catalogue makers etc, to spend time and money to custom design complex things to suit his EXACT and narrow needs, and then will likely politely ask someone to waste an hour, to send him the data free. :roll:
I'm quite happy to pay for the info. I'm not happy to wait months for it. So if anybody here does "consultancy" then quote me for the answer and I'll pay via PayPal. Six number ranges (that I've guessed for now) is not an hour's work.

These are mostly not very easy stamps to get but if Glen has heaps of them to sell then it might be more worthwhile having an off-line discussion about them than me spending more time trying to find out how many there are.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and colonies?

Post by John Russell - NZ »

GlenStephens wrote: 21 Feb 2020 22:38
dwhopper wrote:Find this book on stamp perfins - "Australian Official Perfins", compiled by David Andersen, for all states but Victoria.

Find Toop's book on Victoria VG perfins.

You will be overwhelmed with the volume of information.

BUT, as I said, I have no idea where to get these books, which are likely out of print.

Found one of the 100s of pages, large A4 sized, 2007 Second, and last, edition, in my stockroom if anyone needs this superb handbook. (Stock 793KQ)

RARE book. $A90 was what it was marked at. And I doubt you will find another on offer. GLOBALLY :mrgreen:

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I don't get you Glen. This book doesn't include VIC which means I can't get the answer even if I was to find a copy which you claim is most unlikely. Yes, I do have EXACT and narrow needs - to be effective and efficient. If I can't be, I generally decide to do something else instead!
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by dwhopper »

The book includes Victoria, just not VG. Your exact and narrow needs (your words) are for Perf OS material. Not VG material. Am I correct? The book is valuable for your needs.
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Re: Official perfins catalogues for Australia and Colony stamps?

Post by John Russell - NZ »

dwhopper wrote: 12 Dec 2021 00:08 The book includes Victoria, just not VG. Your exact and narrow needs (your words) are for Perf OS material. Not VG material. Am I correct? The book is valuable for your needs.
You are correct so thanks for correcting my misunderstanding. If this is long out of print it may prove futile trying to get a copy. The ACSC "States & Roos" volume mentioned earlier is possibly all I need anyway. Perhaps still obtainable if I'm pointed in the right direction.
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