Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

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Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by burneggroll »

Please help me translate. What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?
Image
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On a Japan 3 Sen. Dated 1911 Jan 3. Canceled in Korea 汚川.
The best I can get from Google is "dirty river."

I don't know the character at the bottom either. What does it mean? Here's a different stamp with the same bottom character.
...also click to enlarge
Image
Canceled in Busan, Korea 釜山本町
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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by Global Administrator »

What is this 'click to enlarge' nonsense for please??

Loading scans on thread here at the biggest size you have done (in your case the 'biggest' is pretty tiny!) allows the best responses.

I took this below right off your own photobucket account, so no idea why you did not?
Image
Larger images of cancels are simple to post, and cost no more. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Image

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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by burneggroll »

Global Administrator wrote:What is this 'click to enlarge' nonsense for please??
Sorry I goofed, linked wrong source. It must be nice to have fast access all day long.
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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by abakus »

Hi burneggroll,
I can't really help with the location of the first cancel, either. However, I wouldn't read the first character as "dirty". They look similar but it's not the same. Also if I type the characters for "dirty river" (汚川) into google it doesn't produce any hits about a town by that name... same for "yogoregawa" in Latin script. That would be the most likely reading for a place name like that. Unfortunately, I can't identify the first (right) character at all and the online character dictionary I use doesn't know it either. Might be an obscure one used only in that place name. Also, it's unlikely, but there might actually be a third character between the two visible ones. The spacing would be wide enough and a character like "one" or "hole" that does not really have a "bottom part" might be in between. Though, that would make a really weird place name...

As for the second stamp: it was canceled in Kanayama Honchou (金山本町). That should be in Fukushima prefecture, or Yamagate prefecture (there's a Kanayama in each). Kanayama means "gold mountain" and Honchou is the part of town. Literally it means "original town", most probably it refers to the post office closest to the city center (at that time). Alternatively, the first part could be read as kinzan, which means "gold mine" but that doens't fit the context.

The last question is quite simple: the single character (局) below the cancellation date is read kyoku and is a short hand for yuubinkyoku (郵便局) which means "post office" ;-) So the whole cancel might be translated as "Kanayama Honchou (post) office".

Hope I could help!

P.S.: For whatever reason this post had gotten misplaced in your other thread about the meaning of the * in Japanese cancellations. So reposted it here and removed the post in your other thread. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by burneggroll »

abakus wrote:As for the second stamp: it was canceled in Kanayama Honchou (金山本町). That should be in Fukushima prefecture, or Yamagate prefecture (there's a Kanayama in each). Kanayama means "gold mountain" and Honchou is the part of town. Literally it means "original town", most probably it refers to the post office closest to the city center (at that time). Alternatively, the first part could be read as kinzan, which means "gold mine" but that doens't fit the context.
Hello abakus! Thanks for the help. The single tooth in the inner lower half-circle means the cancel was applied in Korea. Sometimes that changes the meaning of the characters. Or I'm really confused, and full of holiday cheer! Merry Christmas to one all here at the stampboards!
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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by abakus »

Hi Burneggroll,
that's interesting, I didn't know that that's how you can tell a stamp was used in Korea! But then I'm not really good at Japanese postal history (more into Ryukyu).
I expected the stamps to have been sent from Japan. So I was sure, the lower stamp was used in Kanayama, Japan. The top part of the first character can't be seen, after all. But of course, you are totally right. If the stamp was used in Korea, it should be 釜山 Busan. Just didn't consider that the stamp might have been used "abroad"...
Thank you for the feedback, learnt something new today!
Merry christmas,
Karolin

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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by burneggroll »

Japan annexed Korea in 1910 and would continue to rule until 1945. I also have trouble with Taiwan (under Japanese rule between 1895 and 1945).
Image
The horizontal comb lines indicate the stamp was canceled in Taiwan. I'm never sure if those ideographs are Japanese or Chinese.

...and thanks for moving the post here. For me, there's not an obvious difference between
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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by abakus »

Thank you for the interesting info. Gonna have to sort through my older Japanese stamps to see where they were used!
The cancel of the stamp used in Taiwan is not very clear, but I'm pretty sure those are Chinese characters. I don't know them and for Japanese characters they would be "weird". Not that Chinese characters are essentially different from Japanese ones (especially before the Chinese reform introducing simplified characters around 1956). It's just a feeling you get with time and experience if you know either Japanese or Chinese...

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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by unechan »

burneggroll wrote:Please help me translate. What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?
Image
click to enlarge
On a Japan 3 Sen. Dated 1911 Jan 3. Canceled in Korea 汚川.
The best I can get from Google is "dirty river."

I don't know the character at the bottom either. What does it mean? Here's a different stamp with the same bottom character.
Possibly cancelled at 沔川 (Myonchon), Chungcheongnam-do.
The character at the bottom is 局, meaning "Post Office". The character could be either 局, 所 or 扱, depending on the classification of the post office.
This cancel is of non-postal usage, as the 局 is at the bottom; the postal usage cancel has the 局 above the date inscription, and the delivery time inscription will come at the bottom.

Hope this clarifies all the questions.

- unechan
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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by unechan »

As already mentioned, comb type datestamp, used in Korea between 1908 and 1921 could be distinguished by the vertical line below the date inscription. The difference in the structure between postal and non-postal usage is shown below. The postal example is from my collection (sorry for the not-so-clear cancellation), the non-postal example is taken from this thread.

Image

- unechan
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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by unechan »

burneggroll wrote:Japan annexed Korea in 1910 and would continue to rule until 1945. I also have trouble with Taiwan (under Japanese rule between 1895 and 1945).
Image
The horizontal comb lines indicate the stamp was canceled in Taiwan. I'm never sure if those ideographs are Japanese or Chinese.
Although the impression is a bit blur, it is very likely to be of 蕃薯寮 Fān Shǔ Liáo (Fan Shu Liao) post office.

The ideographs (Kanji) are traditional Chinese characters, also used in Japan at that time. For example, "Taiwan" was 臺灣 whereas we here in Japan use 台湾 today.

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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by burneggroll »

Dear unechan,

Thanks for the tips. I think I get it!
Postal usage cancels;
ImageImage Image
I think that's one of each post office type. Not so sure about the 3rd one?
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Re: Translate: What city is this Japan/Korea cancel from?

Post by unechan »

burneggroll wrote:Dear unechan,

Thanks for the tips. I think I get it!
Postal usage cancels;
ImageImage Image
I think that's one of each post office type. Not so sure about the 3rd one?
Yes, the third one is an example of "扱", used for 郵便取扱所. This was cancelled at 徳川 Tokchon.
unechan / Osaka, Japan
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