Is this a GB Christmas Stamp with the gold embossing missing?

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kennyh
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Is this a GB Christmas Stamp with the gold embossing missing?

Post by kennyh »

Hi all,

I have these stamps, one is missing the gold (it hasn't been rubbed off). I'm trying to find out if it's worth anything but don't know where to ask?

Can anyone help, please? Here is an image...

Image

Thanks, Ken.
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Re: Stamp with gold embossing missing

Post by gavin-h »

Ken,

If your scan is accurate, it is clear that the colour in the top-right quarter of the stamp is faded - look at the red bar at the right, which is a much lighter, pinker shade towards the top; and compare the top-right panel of stained glass to the other panels.

On that basis, I think what you have here is a stamp that has been deliberately altered by some unknown chemical applied with a cotton bud ("q-tip") or small paintbrush to remove the gold.

Genuine "missing gold" stamps are relatively valuable, so there is always a temptation to try and create an error like this.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - and I hope you didn't pay too much for it!
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Re: Stamp with gold embossing missing

Post by Rog »

Yes I would be suspicious for the same reasons as Gavin. I have several blocks of GB (possibly this set) where the gold layer has simply rubbed off whilst being stored with no intervention.

And as Gavin says, you'd really expect a pair of joined stamps to share the same colour characteristics.
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Re: GB Xmas Stamp with gold embossing missing?

Post by kennyh »

Thank you both for your replies - very much appreciated. The photo was taken on a phone rather than scanned in, I've attached another photo as it isn't faded in that corner it was the way the light was shining on it. If that helps.

Although the light is still shining on the black a bit (hard to get a good photo! You can see how the background I put the stamp on should be dark black but that has come out charcoal colour too in the photo).

Another question - is the gold usually printed on top of black? This stamp was in a big bag of stamps of the same design so I had a lot spare. Only this one had the black head.

I tried scratching the gold off one of the spare stamps but there was no black underneath which makes me wonder if it was printed black by mistake.

It wasn't sold to me as a misprint, I just found it in amongst a big bag of stamps I had.

Thank you

Image
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Re: GB Xmas Stamp with gold embossing missing?

Post by Global Admin »

Kenny - These were printed over a HALF CENTURY ago.

Metallic inks on stamps were in their infancy.

Often just fine brass particles in suspension etc, and not near as "fast" as are used today.

There are clearly sectors of gold still there so it is not a missing colour. Scuffed, oxidised or whatever.

Here's an experiment - dip a Q-Tip into Methylated spirit, and rub it on the "Normal" one and report back. :)

Every ebay spiv and conman who has ever walked this earth has done so on these Bunny "Errors"! -
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GB 5d Christmas stamp SG813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by barnfind »

Hi all,

First-time nooobie poster, so please be gentle ...

I've recently taken an interest in stamps, and our 10yr-old son is very keen now also. He recently bought a bag of old stamps from a charity shop for a modest sum, and has spent many hours researching them, both in books and online, which we're keen to encourage.

Amongst them he found this used 5d stamp, which, I think, is sg813. Comparing to scans of others found online, the gold elements of it are absent - ie the Queen's head, and on/around the star. Has someone been fiddling with this?

I've read that a small number did miss the gold part of the printing process. Has someone tried to make a "normal" stamp into something more interesting??? The rear of the stamp has greeny-stains when the gold would have been, making me suspicious.

I can't offer an explanation to him, can anyone shed light on whether this is a genuine mistake, or (more likely IMO) something that a previous collector has tried to "doctor" into something rarer?

http://s104980574.websitehome.co.uk/occ/p2-photos-misc7/sg813-1.jpg
http://s104980574.websitehome.co.uk/occ/p2-photos-misc7/sg813-1.jpg

thanks, barnfind.
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Re: sg813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by faro »

You'll be wanting to upload that to imgur first per the tutorial on https://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53532, to add the image inline. You don't actually need to set up an account.

n.b. 900 pixels maximum width, but you can edit/resize on imgur if required.

Like so;
Image
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Re: GB 5d Christmas stamp sg813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by gavin-h »

Hi, barnfind, and welcome to Stampboards!

Sadly it can only count as a damaged stamp. The gold colour clearly was present at one time as can be seen by the outline of the Queen's head. How it went missing is a matter of conjecture...

Deliberate removal with a chemical is one possibility, but unlikely as the stamp has other problems (damaged bottom-left corner for instance) and a "professional" faker would have taken more care and used a perfect stamp to try and make an "attractive rarity".


Much more likely in my opinion is accidental removal by incorrect storage - maybe within a plastic folder which chemically affected the gold colour, or by careless soaking. The green stains on the back that you refer to also suggest maltreatment at some stage (a faker wouldn't do that!).

Sadly, you are left with a stamp which is worth even less than the penny or so that a perfect example is worth in the real world.

Incidentally, I've used my "Moderator Superpowers" to add a little more detail to your heading - always wise to include at least the country so other collectors can see if it's a question relating to their field of interest. :idea:

And thanks to faro for pointing barnfind in the direction of the tutorial on images and adding the image. 8)
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Re: GB 5d Christmas stamp sg813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by Parisboy »

Hello Barnfind,

Here is a real "missing gold" example I grabbed off the internet:

Image

As you can see it misses the imprint of the gold head and the star is completely white. Yours seems to have been either scraped off or treated somehow. I doubt that it is a genuine missing gold example, sorry.

Chris.
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Re: GB 5d Christmas stamp sg813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by ViccyVFU »

When you find missing gold on MINT stamps, the usual cause that I have noticed is poor storage. People in the 1970 - 80's just used anything to hand, including PVC files, which might have been right for some collectables, but not for gold embossed stamps. Ten years later, the gold simply is better bonded to the storage plastic.

Image

On USED stamps (Like yours), the most common cause appears to be exposure to chemicals (either innocently, or fraudulently). I know what dissolved this one, but I'm not posting that here as we do not educate fraudsters. (Note there is some residue and it has affected the surrounding pattern).

Image

Where you get genuine missing gold, you tend to find there is no marking at all in the area (rather than particles left).

Image

I'd guess your alteration was chemical.
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Re: GB 5d Christmas stamp sg813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by barnfind »

Very interesting, thanks, as I suspected there has been skulduggery afoot!! It'll be an interesting curio for his collection nevertheless.

Rgds, barnfind
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Re: GB 5d Christmas stamp SG813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by ottawasteve »

I have little else to offer except my best wishes to your son as he embarks upon (into?) this hobby. Please feel free to email me your address and I would happily mail a box of material for him to explore.

steve
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Re: GB 5d Christmas stamp SG813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by Allanswood »

Excellent! We have another budding forensic philatelist in the making with keen eyes and a bit of research. :D

Now put the stamp in an album, research here and write up the causes (both legit and skulduggery), of the potential error of missing gold, add an image of a real missing gold and why it can be identified and confirmed as actual missing gold.

Then look for other UK stamp issues that have suffered the same fate over the years.

Then look for other countries that have the same problem - (Hint, "down under" is one of them!) and find examples of them as well. :D

Winter is coming... plenty to do. :lol:
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Re: GB 5d Christmas stamp SG813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by barnfind »

ottawasteve wrote:I have little else to offer except my best wishes to your son as he embarks upon (into?) this hobby. Please feel free to email me your address and I would happily mail a box of material for him to explore.

steve
Hi Steve, that's very kind of you, thanks. He's just spent an hour or so wading through a new pile of 1960s UK stamps, with a copy of a recent SG book to hand. When I viewed your profile I didn't have the option to email you directly, or send PMs.

Allanswood - good idea, I found him a "normal" SG813 today so he can put the two together in his album.

Rgds,
Barnfind (I don't get notifications of replies emailed to me for some reason)
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Re: GB 5d Christmas stamp SG813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by gavin-h »

barnfind wrote:I don't get notifications of replies emailed to me for some reason
There seems to be a bit of a glitch with our email system at the moment - perhaps if ottawasteve tries emailing you as well, you'll manage to contact each other soon. :idea:
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Re: GB 5d Christmas stamp SG813 - where has the gold gone?

Post by norvic »

gavin-h wrote:
barnfind wrote:I don't get notifications of replies emailed to me for some reason
There seems to be a bit of a glitch with our email system at the moment - perhaps if ottawasteve tries emailing you as well, you'll manage to contact each other soon. :idea:
"At the moment" ? I haven't had a 'somebody has posted' email for months.
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Missing gold, or another explanation? GB Xmas 1987 13p.

Post by ocifant »

Looking at the GB 1987 Xmas 13p issue, I can't see a 'missing gold' listed in SG Concise and my copy of the SG Specialised stops at 1984.

I have what appears to be a missing gold version, shown on the left here next to an admittedly poor used copy of the same stamp with gold intact.
GB87 Xmas gold.jpg
Is this a true error, or has someone possibly chemically removed the gold? And if so, to what end?
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Re: GB Xmas Stamp with gold embossing missing?

Post by Global Admin »

Dip a Q-Tip into Methylated Spirits, and have a play with Queen head on your stuffed RH stamp and report back please. Its value CANNOT drop any more. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: GB Xmas Stamp with gold embossing missing?

Post by ocifant »

:lol:

Thanks for moving my thread - another lesson learned: try different search criteria before posting what could be a duplicate thread or FAQ.
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Re: Is this a GB Christmas Stamp with the gold embossing missing?

Post by Global Admin »

We have 11 MILLION posts .... most topics have already been started before. :)
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