New Zealand Chalon Head stamps - Show us yours!

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DK
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New Zealand Chalon Head stamps - Show us yours!

Post by DK »

Hi All

I thought it might be nice to see something a bit different around these boards - New Zealand's first issues - The Chalon Heads / Full Face Queen stamps.

These are my most favourite of stamps not only because they are so old, but also because they are a link to the past and to our earliest colonial beginnings - an insight to the social history of that time, things brought out from the old world into the new.

Please share here your gems of early New Zealand - single items, on piece, on cover, postmark interest, exhibition pieces. Lets see what you've got. :D

Dave :D

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Post by DK »

SG 4 / SG 5 / SG 6
1855-57 on blue paper , no wmk , imperf , J Richardson Auckland
SG4 dec 1855 / SG5 mar 1856 / SG6 sep 1857

Image

Very difficult to get SG 4 and SG 6 in superb condition.

Dave :D

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Come on Roly,

Load up SG1, SG2 & SG3 8)
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Post by ewen s »

Love the 2 penny blue, Dave.

I wish I had a few, but they'll have to wait for another day.

Here is a really good link to a site that tells you heaps about NZ stamps and postal history. It was actually created by a stampboarder - Bob.

http://www.nzstamps.org.uk/chalon/chalon0/index.html


Cheers,

Ewen :)

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Post by DK »

Another SG 5 - This is a nice one !

Image

Dave :D
Last edited by DK on 01 Oct 2008 15:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by DK »

SG 2
July 1855
wmk large star
blued paper
imperf
Perkins Bacon & co. London

Image

Dave :D
Last edited by DK on 01 Oct 2008 15:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by GlenStephens »

Image
Here is another SG 5, that I have up on my Rarity page right now.

New Zealand 1855 2d blue Chalon on BLUED paper - NO Watermark: Fine used imperforate strip of 3, from the corner of the sheet. Unusually light cancels. Has double lined letters paper-maker's watermark along the top edge - see note in SG covering this, and proving these are SG 5. Clean and fresh, and a large multiple of this is clearly worth a premium. SG #5 £900 = $A2,250. Just 17½% of cat! $A400
.

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Post by DK »

ewen s wrote:Love the 2 penny blue, Dave.

I wish I had a few, but they'll have to wait for another day.

Here is a really good link to a site that tells you heaps about NZ stamps and postal history. It was actually created by a stampboarder - Bob.

http://www.nzstamps.org.uk/chalon/chalon0/index.html


Cheers,

Ewen :)
Yup .. that is a great site Ewen .. I love the history and the pics.... Dave :D

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Post by DK »

.... unusual to see a multiple of 3(or more) of SG 5 - on any of those real early ones Glen ... :D

Dave :D
Last edited by DK on 01 Oct 2008 15:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by DK »

SG 3
july 1855
wmk large star
blued paper
imperf
Perkins Bacon & co.


Image

This one (unfortunately) not mine ... yet!

Dave :D

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Strange but the SG3 scan doesn't show as blued paper to me :?:
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Post by GlenStephens »

Image
This was a New Zealand chalon SG 3 London Print 6d green that I wrote about recently:

https://www.glenstephens.com/snapril08.html

Glen

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Post by DK »

There is a difference between 'Blue' paper and 'Blued' paper .. and this issue has shades that can be extremely difficult to tell apart from those of the later Davies printings.

The blueing shows to a greater or lesser extent and is due to chemical reaction between the ink and the paper.

extract from the CP catalogue ...

".. this stamp always shows some traces of blueing of the paper by chemical reaction between the ink and the paper. ..... an excellent test of whether a stamp is A6a (and not a later issue) is to look for traces of blue staining bleeding from the green frame lines into the outer margins on the face of the stamp. Some frontal traces of blue are always found on genuine copies of A6a."

I'll see if I can get a better example to illustrate this Tony. :D

Dave :D

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Post by DK »

And here another SG3 ... the owner is after $5000 NZ dollars for it !!

Image

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Post by DK »

SG 3 is one you'd probably want with a certificate if identification is an issue !!

Dave :D

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Post by ewen s »

Wow eh;

How hot was Queen Victoria? I reckon she looks best in the Chalon portraits.

Ewen

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Pity it has only 3 full margins, one more of the same width and it would have been superb 8)

My NZ collection does have a few imperf and perfed chalons including one of the Dunedin prints, but no really early one's I'm afraid.
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Post by DK »

Easier one now Tony ...

SG 16
1858
hard or soft white paper
no wmk
imperf
J Richardson Auckland

Back to my ones again after SG 3 ..... :D nice one this ..

Image

Dull Emerald Green

Dave :D

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Post by DK »

ewen s wrote:Wow eh;

How hot was Queen Victoria? I reckon she looks best in the Chalon portraits.

Ewen
Settle down Ewen :!: :D she must be almost 200 years old by now !! a bit old for you :D :lol:

... but seriously .. I reckon she is too! I just love these portraits of her ... Ceylon and Tasmanian issues are just as good (almost).

Dave :D :D :D

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Post by DK »

Lakatoi 4 wrote:Pity it has only 3 full margins, one more of the same width and it would have been superb 8)

My NZ collection does have a few imperf and perfed chalons including one of the Dunedin prints, but no really early one's I'm afraid.
Well lets see them then Tony !! :D :D :D

Dave :D

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Post by ewen s »

Dave,

Newbie question - Is there a difference between the Tassie ones and the Kiwi Chalons?

And if there isn't, I wonder if the fact that NZ and Tasmania had similar looking stamps was one thing that helped lead to the plethora of jokes here comparing Tasmanians to New Zealanders?

Ewen

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Post by DK »

Ewen

This is the portrait by AE Chalon of the young Victoria from which both the Tasmania and New Zealand early issues derive their design.

Image

Tasmania went for a closer up view of her from this portrait than did NZ.

Dave :D

Tasmanian chalons to follow ...

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Post by DK »

Image

Dave :D

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Post by DK »

... and side by side

Image

As you can see now .. Tasmania went for the closer view than did NZ ...

I just love this design and collect them both to the detriment of most other issues !! .. almost :D

Dave :D

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Post by DK »

ewen s wrote:....and if there isn't, I wonder if the fact that NZ and Tasmania had similar looking stamps was one thing that helped lead to the plethora of jokes here comparing Tasmanians to New Zealanders?

Ewen
Ewen mate ... nothing to do with it !!!! :wink: They just like picking on the little fella's ! .. and most of 'em are ex. pommies anyway !!! :shock:

Dave :D

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Post by ewen s »

DK wrote:... and side by side

Image

As you can see now .. Tasmania went for the closer view than did NZ ...

I just love this design and collect them both to the detriment of most other issues !! .. almost :D

Dave :D
Thanks for the side by side view.

NZ must have been a little more prudish - they couldn't just show bare shoulders on the Queen, they had to show she was wearing something!

NZ even had a threepence ('56) that was re-issued showing a shoulder strap due to the dislike of just bare shoulders. And maybe a penny as well? Can't remember and no reference books at work.

Ewen :)
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Post by RolyRJ »

Someone mention blocks??? Or was that another thread ? :?

But while I m here:

Image

cheers

Roly

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Post by DK »

RolyRJ wrote:Someone mention blocks??? Or was that another thread ? :?
Hi Roly ... nice block of one of the 2d reprints ... have you got a copy of the full sheet of the reprint in green ? Looks impressive :D

Would be a dream to own a full sheet of SG1 !! ... must wake up must wake up :D

Roly .. while here ... did you see my entries to your Penny Universal thread ? I have a strip of 4 there I think may be SG305ab ... could you take a look for me and put me out of my misery please !!! .. cheers

Dave :D

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Post by DK »

SG 12 / SG 13 / SG 15
1859
hard or soft white paper
no wmk
imperf
J Richardson Auckland


Image

Dave :D

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Post by GlenStephens »

Don't forget all the early Queensland issues were CHALONS too. 8)

This superb 1860 SG#1, I have on my rarity page now:
Image

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Post by DK »

That is quite right Glen ... I almost forgot that :wink: ... I haven't really gotten in to Queenslands issues yet ... but that is a beauty :D

Promise to Glen ... Should I be fortunate enough to win $20million on the lotto this weekend I will be over to take it off your hands in person next week ...

Dave :D ... finally off to look at this rarity page :D

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Post by AndrewWalker »

Another Chalon portrait. I don't know if this was ever
used on a stamp design.

More info on Mr Chalon can be found here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Edward_Chalon

Image
Last edited by AndrewWalker on 19 Dec 2008 19:15, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by ewen s »

DK wrote:That is quite right Glen ... I almost forgot that :wink: ... I haven't really gotten in to Queenslands issues yet ... but that is a beauty :D

Promise to Glen ... Should I be fortunate enough to win $20million on the lotto this weekend I will be over to take it off your hands in person next week ...

Dave :D ... finally off to look at this rarity page :D
DON'T DO IT DAVE. YOU'LL GO BROKE

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Post by DK »

ewen s wrote:
DON'T DO IT DAVE. YOU'LL GO BROKE
What! Like you ? :lol: :lol: :lol: your poor wife !!

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Post by ewen s »

Hah, as I recall there are heaps of Chalons there so I was a bit worried.

And my poor wife understands. Lisey buys clothes and we're both happy. :) Besides I don't spend much anyway.

What else have you got to show us? Your stamps seem to have all nice clear margins (nearly). Did it take a while to put those together?

Ewen

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Post by DK »

All the ones of mine I have shown above have 4 margins Ewen (bar the SG4) .. the SG3's above admittedly are not mine ... Alas ..

I have heaps of FFQs ... 2/3rds would be perf'ed though ... and I'll get back to scanning some over the coming days .. it's 11.30pm here and the scanner is asleep shhhhh .. I restarted collecting again only in mid 2003 (from virtual scratch) ... but have spent plenty since then ... times are achanging and I am just in consolidation mode at present .. :D

Will be back into again once I win that lotto ...

Have you any Chalons to show us? Would love to see whatever you have ... I'll show off some roulettes (trial separations) soon too :D :D Keep watching ...

And all you other NZ collectors out there ... lets see what y'all have !

Dave :D

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Post by ewen s »

Dave,

I have only recently returned to stamp collecting and my NZ is still just basicallly my childhood worldwide album. Australia is much more complete as it was over here that I picked up my collecting habits again; but I still love seeing those Chalons! And the imperfs look so much nicer.

Cheers,

Ewen

Still, I'll post a nice NZ set on the 'omplete sets thread tomorrow

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Post by DK »

AndrewWalker wrote:Another Chalon portrait. I don't know if this was ever used on a stamp design.
hmmm not sure Andrew ... Queen Vic. looks older in that portrait .. exactly the same pose in exactly the same set it would appear ... she wore a different frock though !!

Dave :D

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Post by GlenStephens »

AndrewWalker wrote:Another Chalon portrait. I don't know if this was ever
used on a stamp design.

More info on Mr Chalon can be found here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Edward_Chalon

Image
I seem to recall this was the design on a NZ mini sheet in the 1980s or 90s?

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Post by DK »

Give that man a prize :wink:

http://www.nzstamps.com/Cat_pages/Cat28.html

Dave :D *going off to bed right NOW so good nite one and all*

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Post by waroff49 »

This is one I posted many moons ago.
Image

Pity it's only on piece not a full cover. Still have no idea what Chalons they are?
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Post by Roo~Chalon »

Evening all !

Here are some of my NZ Chalons.
Sorry, it was the best i could do as they are in a curved frame.
So a photo camera was my only option for now.
I have more, but they are scattered and all over the place.

Image

On top of that my main PC has died on me, so i dont have any of my editing programs to enlarge and enchance the photo on this laptop. Cant wait till friday when my new PC arrives! yah
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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Here are some of mine (don't you love those printed off worn plate's - what were they thinking :? ) :

Image

Image

Image
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Post by DK »

waroff49 wrote:This is one I posted many moons ago.
Image

Pity it's only on piece not a full cover. Still have no idea what Chalons they are?
Thanks for sharing that Bill.
Yup shame it is not a full cover but a fantastic piece all the same!

The stamps upon this piece would be narrowed down to :

2d Blue - perf12.5 or perf13 / NZ wmk or Large Star wmk ? / Worn plate /

possibilities therefore are :

- SG 72/73 perf13 star wmk (and it has a Dunedin Duplex cancel)
- SG 105 perf13 NZ wmk
- SG 107 perf12.5 NZ wmk
- SG 113 perf12.5 Star wmk

This is a worn plate - plate 1 - used until late 1865 when plate 2 superceded it in either Dec/Jan 1865/66. It is not the Pelure paper 2d as that shade is 'REALLY' distinctive!

So you need to measure the perfs really carefully as p12.5 and 13 are pretty similar - read the notes in Gibbons on this. Also you need to determine the watermark somehow.

the 6d Red-Brown - perf 12.5 or 13 / wmk NZ or Large Star

possibilities are therefore :

- SG 77 p13 large star
- SG 108 p12.5 NZ
- SG 122 p12.5 large star

Let us know how you get on Bill.

Dave :D

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Post by DK »

Roo-Chalon

Lovely volume of Chalons there :D Will look forward very much to getting a closer look :shock:

Question springs to mind : WHY?
Why have you mounted these into a frame and hung them onto a wall ? Are they all spacefillers ? Are they in a dark room or are they exposed to light ?

I don't have any objection to whatever you have done and why, but in all cases where I have seen such displays the items 'BLEACH' ... ie FADE and dis-colour! :cry: (thought -are these just in a temporary display perhaps :!: )

Anyway ... show us a close up of them when you can ... Cheers

Dave :D

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Post by DK »

Tony
Thanks for posting yours too. They make up a fine grouping :D

Thoughts : The 1d brown DID wear very quickly once the colours had changed in 1871. A new set, the First Sideface set, was introduced on Jan 2 1874 and I suppose they persisted with the worn plate knowing that the new set was about to make its introduction. Also, like Aust., NZ was a very long way away from the motherland and nothing got done quickly. A new plate from London being put into service would have taken a year or so to have planned / ordered / made / sent out / etc etc

Any FFQ with a CDS is great ... much nicer than those "Killers" .. but mainly found on the later issues as per your 2d orange on row 1/4 and the 1/- green on row 1/1. Any imperf FFQ with a CDS is very desirable IMHO.

Also the perfs and the centering on those perfed copies is an issue. Get one with with nice perfs and well centred and you're looking at a very desirable item (lightly cancelled too!)

Questions arising :

The imperf 6d red-brown you have on row 3/3 and 3/4. What Wmk are they? NZ wmk would make them very desirable !!

Dave :D

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Dave,

I have a feeling those two 6d.'s are large star w/mark but I'm not at home now so can't check them.

The 6d. at the far left of row 2 is the 1862 Dunedin Perf 13.
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Post by Roo~Chalon »

Hi Dave (DK)

Thank you.

Yes, WHY - that's a very good question!

Well I guess the original answer would be because I wanted to display them where I could see them everyday. Instead of being in a stock book, folder etc.

The idea was to put them in a frame and be able to look at them nicely, everyday and admire them, they are colourful too!

At the time of doing that, I slowed down on collecting them and then concentrated on the Roos. But I guess I couldn't help myself and continued to source them over the last 12 month and in doing so I accumulated more - but there is no more room in the frame!

Now because of this issue, I want them altogether and not scattered, I will need to come up with a better solution.

They are in a semi dark room, my office, and no where near direct sunlight. You could probably say half or most are space fillers I guess. To be honest, I don't even know their perfs, watermarks or anything. It was the very first serious stamp I became interested in. I accumulated and framed them, then moved on to the Roos. Its when I started on the Roos I more or less became aware and focused on all the technical details of perfs, watermarks, plates, postmarks, flaws and what have you, etc.

And at the time I guess I thought it was a good idea framing them, as it was one way to protect them so to speak? Now I'm not too sure after reading your comment on fading, bleaching etc.

I have however recently thought about moving them out of the frame and into something more appropriate along with the others and future purchases but just haven't found the time yet.

So when I do that, I would love to show them properly on Stampboards under this thread in the near future. And maybe some comments and opinions would be nice too as I don't know near enough on them.

Thanks for your comments and questions.
Cheers !
Maria

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Post by waroff49 »

As far as I can judge, using my instanta, the blues are perf 13 and the 6d is perf 12.5. I can't work out the watermark through the piece.
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Post by DK »

Roo-Chalon

Nice that you like the classics .. Roo's and Chalons :D
Yes, rehousing them in that case would be a very wise idea. There are some threads around here that go into options for storage and display of items. Perhaps you could look into this. Some chalons are worth good sums of money so I'd get into seeing what you have there in your lot as soon as you can.
When you can post some up here for us to have a good look at. Could advise you further then.

Good luck :D

Dave :D

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