Discuss the 2008+ Irish "Stamps On A Roll" SOAR's issues

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 27 Mar 2020 19:56

Since the Irish Post Office started to experiment with ''stamps on a roll'' - also called SOAR - in 2008, most of the "traditional" definitives disappeared from usage.

Stamp collectors were not so pleased hence they did pay less attention to all the versions of the SOAR's they would normally have discovered.

These are not the first issued but just here to give you an idea

More details - not so much about the characteristics of the dispending machines - but about the basic stamps as they got printed.

And of course, technical details about the various machines are most welcome.

Waffle · Post by **Waffle** » 27 Mar 2020 20:28

Rein, Marvellous thread. Ubobo and I are BIG fans of SOARS. I was in Cork last year. I went to the GPO and asked the guy behind the philatelic counter if it were possible to get SOARS in 1/5/10/15/20 and 25Cents values.

He said yes and when I asked for 32 of each value, I thought he was going to leap the counter and hug me. As there are 8 varieties in each value, Ubobo and I wanted a mint copy and used one of each stamp as we are fans.

When I got the train back to Cobh, I was able to get another set of 1 Euro value stamps. I probably financed An Posts annual expenditure that July. If it is possible to get a complete update from The SOARS first issue we would love it.

Ubobo.R.O. · Post by **Ubobo.R.O.** » 27 Mar 2020 20:40

A chronological listing of all the SOARs issues would be great.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 27 Mar 2020 20:44

Ubobo.R.O. wrote:A chronological listing of all the SOARs issues would be great.

Allow me some time to get the necessary scans made!

I just started to collect them last year and was fascinated by them!

I do have a few thousands of them by now, sorting them out and writing an article about them.

Rein

Cill Dara · Post by **Cill Dara** » 27 Mar 2020 21:30

Well, I have no personal interest in these issues, as I am mostly interested in pre 1960s Ireland way back to the 1600s.

Anyone who is a member of the IPC (Ireland/UK) or EPA (USA) Irish societies will have access to a very detailed new issue list published each year. I'm not sure if the FAI (Germany) publishes this list.

There is voluminous listing and background data on the SOAR issues from 2008 in these publications. Members of the IPC can get a CD with all back issues.

I could.....maybe

.......look up specific queries, if no one else comes forward.........I have IPC publications back to 1960 scanned.

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 27 Mar 2020 22:25

Just a few points regarding Rein's post.

The images Tiger Beetle to Dolphin are from the SOAR Irish Animals and Marine Life series first issued on 8th September 2010 as identified by the date code 10251.

Those from the Green Huntsman Spider to Common Frog are from the second issue 21st July 2011 as shown by the date code 11202.

Both sets as shown are as issued by the Philatelic Bureau in Dublin. The date code and the machine code does not change on these stamps. The small number in the bottom right hand corner shows the position of the stamp on the strip and never exceeds 8. Items from the Bureau were only ever issued in strips of 4.

No doubt Rein will post images with different date codes, differing machine codes and numbers higher than 8. These are all from various Post Office Counters who dispensed the stamps from rolls. It was possible to buy intact strips of 8 stamps.

Stamps from both the Philatelic Bureau and Post Office Counters have 3 phosphor bars or tags.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 27 Mar 2020 22:33

Cill Dara wrote:Well, I have no personal interest in these issues, as I am mostly interested in pre 1960s Ireland way back to the 1600s.

Anyone who is a member of the IPC (Ireland/UK) or EPA (USA) Irish societies will have access to a very detailed new issue list published each year. I'm not sure if the FAI (Germany) publishes this list.

There is voluminous listing and background data on the SOAR issues from 2008 in these publications. Members of the IPC can get a CD with all back issues.

I could.....maybe .......look up specific queries, if no one else comes forward.........I have IPC publications back to 1960 scanned.

Welcome!

I joined the EPA in September last year and offered them an article for the Revealer.

I did read all the "That Was the Year that Was" by Brian Warren and I am aware that he deserves a great applause for his consistent work over a 30 years!

The yearly reviews by Brian Warren were published by the FAI as well - bilingually!

I am in close email-contact with him since early last year and showed him most of my findings so far unpublished anywhere.

Rein

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 27 Mar 2020 22:42

Erinmania wrote:Just a few points regarding Rein's post.

The images Tiger Beetle to Dolphin are from the SOAR Irish Animals and Marine Life series first issued on 8th September 2010 as identified by the date code 10251.

Those from the Green Huntsman Spider to Common Frog are from the second issue 21st July 2011 as shown by the date code 11202.

Both sets as shown are as issued by the Philatelic Bureau in Dublin. The date code and the machine code does not change on these stamps. The small number in the bottom right hand corner shows the position of the stamp on the strip and never exceeds 8. Items from the Bureau were only ever issued in strips of 4.

No doubt Rein will post images with different date codes, differing machine codes and numbers higher than 8. These are all from various Post Office Counters who dispensed the stamps from rolls. It was possible to buy intact strips of 8 stamps.

Stamps from both the Philatelic Bureau and Post Office Counters have 3 phosphor bars or tags.

As said, I will come back to this more detailed.

As to the phosphor tags, at first there was a frame for the 2008 Waterways, that was almost intermediately dropped and replaced by the 3 bars you refer to.

The Philatelic Bureau Easter Rising SOAR's reach the number of 16! And the 100 Objects also go beyond 8! The non-philatelic SOARs go up to 600.

Just a bit of patience please

Rein

Cill Dara · Post by **Cill Dara** » 27 Mar 2020 22:51

Rein,

Maybe I could get to love SOARs.......seeing that I actually use them.

Keep up the good work.

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 27 Mar 2020 23:06

My dear Rein.

The comments I made were clearly referenced to the Animals and Marine Life issues. I deliberately did not mention the Waterways or the Easter Rising issue nor the Objects issues so as not to complicate matters.

In fact the new postal service centres dispense stamps numbered above the 600 mark as they use new jumbo rolls, use different fonts and inscription.

Erinmania

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 27 Mar 2020 23:31

Erinmania wrote:My dear Rein.

The comments I made were clearly referenced to the Animals and Marine Life issues. I deliberately did not mention the Waterways or the Easter Rising issue nor the Objects issues so as not to complicate matters.

In fact the new postal service centres dispense stamps numbered above the 600 mark as they use new jumbo rolls, use different fonts and inscription.

Erinmania

I'll be watching these higher numbers now as I wasn't aware of it

Since when do we have these jumbo rolls?

Rein

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 27 Mar 2020 23:47

You are likely to have a long wait as the new machines break down regularly, are difficult to use and therefore not used very much by the public.

The first of the new psc's launched on 16th September 2019 at Thurles. This was followed by Newbridge and Swords in 2020.
Due to be opened are centres at St.Andrew Street Dublin, and Cork and Limerick head post offices.

There may well be others that are in use but usually they are only installed at the larger post offices following refurbishment.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 01:33

The 2008 Waterways SOAR's were issued on July 21,2008.

The date code A203 can be decoded as A = 2008, 203 = day 203;

The picture was printed digitally in 4 colours_ magenta, cyan, yellow and black, i.e. in a way comparable to a home based colour laser printer. This also goes for the wavy black lines.

The black at the right [value, date, 0250001] was applied by thermal printing.

And here come the first problems: two types of paper were used for the Waterways - probably varnished at first and later matt paper with a tree-like pattern.

The Philatelic Bureau issues have the varnished paper which may conflict with the use of thermal printing.

Thermal printing can be done in a cheap way which guarantees fading and disappearing or in a more expensive way so the print will last!

So far, after twelve years, no damage seems to have occurred

The phosphorescence was applied in a frame [see above] at first, later to be changed in a 3 bar one.

In BOTH cases the date was SET on A203. This didn't necessarily reflect any real date!

An error is known in setting the date to A123

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 28 Mar 2020 03:56

On the original issue date of 21st July 2008 the only machines installed were those at the Philatelic Counter in Dublin (see Rein's strip ) and the GPO in Dublin . Both had the phosphor frame but the GPO machine broke down on the day thus stamps A203 with machine code 9801001 (GPO Dublin) are scarce. Later all issues had 3 phosphor bars.

The Bureau stamps always had the set date of A203 except for the A123 error which also has a full phosphor frame and was on sale for a short while in November 2008 or possibly earlier.

Machines other than from the Philatelic Bureau had meaningful dates and stamps are known dated throughout 2008 -2013 (A-F) by which time Kiosks had used up their stocks.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 04:06

Digital printing by Label Art for the 4 colours of the picture!

Flexography for the phosphorescence.

Unlike in traditional printing there is NO impact - no touchable plate or cylinder from which either directly or indirectly ink get transferred to stamp paper!

It is all virtual, digital - bit and bytes - in the computer just as it is in our laser printers or inkjets!

And as all have experienced at times, the printer spits a load of rubbish on our papers as well.

The thermal printers in the dispensing machines may just as well deform their output or produce any administrative rubbish.... At times keen collectors found ways of having these machines do what they like

The paper of the SOAR's is coated and the coating has optical brightening agents. I.e. under the UV-lamp the paper reacts white/bluish.

As said before there are THREE different types of paper surfaces found so far.

A "varnished" one, one with a tree-like pattern and one with a set of thin vertical lines. This all can be seen when observing the surface under an small angle! A 4th type can be considered the one with nothing in the surface to be seen.

Alas, I am not yet able to get these differences made visible.

The "perforation" is a kiss-die cut we know from our self-adhesive coil or booklet stamps. They are even quite like the ones for these stamps! Several versions of the SOAR kiss-die cuts do resemble those of the Birds of Wild Flowers self-adhesives !

At least TWO different types of kiss-die cuts are known for the SOAR's. I will deal with this later on.

The Waterways SOAR's only have ONE type of kiss-die cut.

The Waterways produced by the Philatelic Bureau with 3 phosphorescent bars. Same date, same code!

3 phosphorescent bars for stamps on the first day! Philatelic Bureau code as well.

Printed on "varnished" paper.

https://www.labelsandlabeling.com/news/latest/woelco-label-a ... -ccl-label

22 Jan 2016 Woelco, Label Art and Label Art Digital added to CCL Label

In addition, CCL has acquired Label Art and Label Art Digital, privately owned companies with common shareholders, based in Dublin, Ireland. Label Art is a pressure-sensitive label producer with a focus on healthcare and specialty customers in Ireland and the UK. Label Art Digital is described as Ireland's first and largest digital label manufacturer. The first digital press was installed in 2005 and a second press was installed in 2010 to meet demand for digital print.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 04:18

I am not an ATM collector as such, but specialists in that field wrote about the Irish experiment:

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 05:18

All in all, how many versions do exist with date code A203?

- Phosphorescent frame - 0250001 and 9801001 (Dublin Main Post Office)
- 3 phosphorescent bars - 0250001

Strip from 9802001 = [Dublin Airport] on "varnished" paper:

A318 = November 13, 2008

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 05:31

Stamps on "varnished" paper:

B=2009, C=2010, D=2011, E=2012, F=2013

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 28 Mar 2020 06:18

A correction to one of my earlier posts.

On checking my collection, the A123 error code was on sale during 2013 and not 2008. The reference to 2008 was when the framed stamps were on sale for a short time in November 2008 including at Stampa.

It is confusing when the Philatelic Bureau Waterways soar issues are all dated 2008 even when they could be purchased in say 2010. The 3 phosphor bar version despite the date on them was NOT on sale on the original day of issue.

Rein's specialist article refers to a machine at Dublin Airport. I understand that a machine was installed there but was not in working order on the first day of issue. It was removed the following day as stated.
A machine with a machine test code (4567123) was reinstalled on 6th October 2008 but did not remain working for very long. It dispensed the 3 bar phosphor version. By the end of the month another machine had been installed but the machine code differed from the "test" version (9802001) and again dispensed the 3 phosphor bar version.

As far as it is known there are therefore only 3 variants with the A203 date code.

The phosphor frame is only found in yellow but the 3 bar version exists in both yellow and in a pale grey /dull white colour.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 08:40

What type of thermal printer was used for the Waterways?

According to Ateeme.net the counter stamps of the later series used an Epson TM J7500 thermal printer.

The differences in print are clear!

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 28 Mar 2020 09:18

I have no idea Rein, printers, paper, dots per mm are your realm.

All I will say is the strip on the right hand side is from the Bureau. I would assume the printer used would be the same as for the Waterways, HP Indigo which is offset digital.

The strip on the left hand side is as used at post office counters NOT postal service centres/kiosks and that machine was not used for the Waterway soar issue.
It may be a modified version (beyond my scope of collecting) as it allows for issues to be printed with wording, e.g standard post, registered post, express post, express post with signature and courier post which is from the Epsom TM thermal type of printers. I have not found any Waterways stamps with this wording.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 09:40

Erinmania,

The HP Indigo was used for the coloured picture, the black at the right was a thermal print! So TWO different printers used.

The HP Indigo is NOT an offset-litho press!

Rein

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 19:17

Erinmania,

Googling for the Epson TM-J7500 thermal printer did show ONLY a inkjet-printer series!

https://ftp.epson.com/latin/drivers/Impresoras/oposuser/j7000_j7100_j7500_j7600usr_man.pdf

Have you ever seen one yourself? Does it look like this?

Rein

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 23:06

Back to the Waterways SOAR printed on tree-like surface structure and dates till the end of 2011.

December 3, 2011:

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 23:08

Very useful in decoding the dates!

according to: https://www.scp.byu.edu/docs/doychart.html

Second figure in each cell is for leap years

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 28 Mar 2020 23:51

The resolution of the printer [thermal] in the Postal Kiosk dispensing machines is higher than the resolution of the subsequent Epson printers [inkjet NOT thermal!]:

Wincor:

Epson:

Cill Dara · Post by **Cill Dara** » 29 Mar 2020 00:08

Only slightly off topic.......

The Revealer publication of the US based Éire Philatelic Association is available online from 1951 to 2018. It includes Brian Warren's
seminal listing "that was the year that was", previously referred to.

https://eirephilatelicassoc.org/revealer

The German based FAI (Study and Research Group on Irish Philately) has produced splendid literature, including my mainstay....
Irish Post Offices, with 477 pages of listings in Irish and English. FAI publications are in German and English.

http://www.fai-germany.de/engl/index.html

The Irish Philatelic Circle is UK/ Ireland based and produces the excellent Irish Philately journal.

http://www.irishphil.com/

Anyone with an interest in Irish philately from the 1600s to tomorrow

should be a member of one or more of the above.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 29 Mar 2020 00:57

Having an interest in stamp production technics in general, it is virtually impossible to be a member of all study circles - if only for financial reasons!

It is good thing that the Revealer is accessible for non-members! The magazins of the other organizations are not

Even though I wouldn't need it now, being a member of the ÉPA

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 29 Mar 2020 03:24

The next SOAR series are the Wild Flowers issued on July 22, 2010. Date code= 10203 i.e. year =2010, 203rd day = 22.07.

The Philatelic Bureau was FULLY digitally printed in 4 colours for everything but the "Éire" and the description of the flowers. The latter in black only.

The paper is like the Waterways Philatelic Bureau SOARs with a varnish. As the whole stamp was in digital print there was NO NEED to use special thermal paper as was necessary for the Postal Kiosk dispensing machines.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 29 Mar 2020 03:51

The SOAR's for the post office counters were supposed to have been printed using Epson printers fed by rolls of 600 stamps.

A trial period had begun in Blackrock on May 20, 2010 hence the date code of 10151 =May 31, 2010 is possible.

Paper like earlier with a tree-like structure on the surface.

The black "Éire" has characteristic indents vertically:

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 29 Mar 2020 06:12

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 29 Mar 2020 06:24

Extra paid services indicated by:

RegisteredPost
StandardPost
ExpressPost

fchd · Post by **fchd** » 29 Mar 2020 08:02

What are the little numbers in the bottom right hand corner?

Ubobo.R.O. · Post by **Ubobo.R.O.** » 29 Mar 2020 09:12

Let's see if The Puffin has been paying attention. The little number in the BRHC is the position number on the roll.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 29 Mar 2020 09:41

Ubobo.R.O. wrote:Let's see if The Puffin has been paying attention. The little number in the BRHC is the position number on the roll.

Yes, that is right!

But, for some reason, the SOAR's meant for the Postal Kiosks, i.e. those with the thermal prints applied in the Wincor dispensing machine, do NOT have them.

I.g. all SOAR's with the date code starting with a letter [A-G] instead of a number [10-20] do NOT have these numbers in the bottom right hand corner !

Rein

Vict0riann · Post by **Vict0riann** » 30 Mar 2020 05:42

I'm following along with great interest. I only have 100 or so SOARs, but had no idea how to sort them. I have now decided I would do them in order of date. My "Waterways" all are C's, so I guess 2010. However, I have put them first... Perhaps I should organize by type first. It is a puzzlement....

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 30 Mar 2020 09:19

After the 2008 Waterways and the 2010 Wild Flowers, also in 2010 - on September 8, 2010 - 8 (eight) SOARS were issued depicting Animals & Marine Life:

As before - i.e. the Wild Flowers - the Philatelic Bureau stamps have the code: 02501000001.

The date code is 10251.

The type of paper is again - like those Philatelic Bureau SOAR's for the Waterways and the Wild Flowers - varnished!

The pictures are in 4-colour digital print: cyan, magenta, yellow and black! Screen resolution: 100 lines/cm [250dpi] for cyan,, magenta and yellow; 80 lines/cm [200dpi] for black. The screen angles are 75 degrees [cyn], 15 [msgenta], 0 [yellow] and 45 [black].

The relevance of the screen resolutions and the screen angles will become more clear later on!

The black texts on the right are all black - remember the Wild Flowers had the texts apart from the "Éire" multicoloured!

The "Éire" had the same indents as mentioned before for the Wild Flowers. This characteristic would remain so for a long period.

I will refer to this as "country type 1"; type 2 will have NO indents so straight vertically in the "É".

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 30 Mar 2020 18:46

SOAR's from the counters were soon available - 13.09.2010:

The basic stamps printed as before, but with the black parts just the country name and the coil-position number in the bottom right hand corner printed on the Hewlett Packard Indigo digital press as well.

Country type 1.

Value, date code and dispensing printer number applied by the Epson TM-J7500.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 30 Mar 2020 19:21

The SOAR's were used normally from the counters with extra options:

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 30 Mar 2020 22:10

[

][/img]

The Waterways A123 date code error. Although dated 2nd May 2008 this item was only on sale at the Philatelic Bureau during 2013.

The image on the right shows only the design . No country name,date or machine code

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 30 Mar 2020 22:32

Erinmania wrote:]

The Waterways A123 date code error. Although dated 2nd May 2008 this item was only on sale at the Philatelic Bureau during 2013.

The image on the right shows only the design . No country name,date or machine code

The right strip shows the coil stamps before they were mounted in any dispenser. Such stamps should not get into the hands of collectors!

Nevertheless, technical staff dealing with these machines often are "friendly" towards stamp collectors. I , myself, have similar stuff of Polish BANPOL's or Dutch Wincor's, no problem to get hold of them then.

Such material is certainly instructive but having them should NOT result in a higher score in any competitive stamp exhibition. Nor should it count for "completeness"!

Rein

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 30 Mar 2020 22:34

Examples of stamps dispensed from desk top machines used by companies.
They were first recorded used in 2010 (code C) . The boxed version first appeared in 2011 (code D). Later date codes may exist.

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 30 Mar 2020 22:49

I have only recorded the Flowers with dates from 2010 and 2011 but later years may exist.
The example shown is a Standard Post strip dated 2011 from a post office counter.
These are also known with the wording Registered Post and Express Post. They may also exist with the wording Express post w/sig and Courier Post.

It is worthy of note that the dot over the i in the country name is missing. The dot is missing from all stamps other than those from the Philatelic Bureau.

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 30 Mar 2020 22:54

Rein wrote:
Value, date code and dispensing printer number applied by the Epson TM-J7500.

https://www.ateeme.net/anglesw/aie_13soar.htm

According to the ATM experts, above mentioned printer number is NOT only indicating the machine but also includes a serial number that is increasing for each SOAR in the strips.

How many digits - at the left - are indicating the machine?

Ateeme shows 3 different types of SOAR: Philatelic Bureau, Post Office counters and Postal Kiosks.

As far as this first Animals&Marine Life set is concerned I have not met any Postal Kiosks SOAR's yet. They must be around - certainly among ATM collectors - but might be scarse otherwise.

The Postal Kiosk SOAR's lack the coil position number that is applied by digital print, so these SOAR's come from a completely different printing order! And as such are a subtype of their own

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 30 Mar 2020 23:02

Erinmania wrote:

I have only recorded the Flowers with dates from 2010 and 2011 but later years may exist.
The example shown is a Standard Post strip dated 2011 from a post office counter.
These are also known with the wording Registered Post and Express Post. They may also exist with the wording Express post w/sig and Courier Post.

It is worthy of note that the dot over the i in the country name is missing. The dot is missing from all stamps other than those from the Philatelic Bureau.

but also includes a serial number that is increasing for each SOAR in the strips.

The increase in your strip is 3 for each consecutive stamp, but is there any rule?

As to the Turkish "i", I have the same observation! All my used ones are Turkish: ı !

Rein

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 30 Mar 2020 23:07

Erinmania wrote:

Examples of stamps dispensed from desk top machines used by companies.
They were first recorded used in 2010 (code C) . The boxed version first appeared in 2011 (code D). Later date codes may exist.

Very interesting as these belong to the so-called EasyPost printers supplied by the Post Office [An Post] to companies?! Already in 2010!

Rein · Post by **Rein** » 30 Mar 2020 23:26

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Cill Dara · Post by **Cill Dara** » 30 Mar 2020 23:52

Erinmania wrote:

Examples of stamps dispensed from desk top machines used by companies.
They were first recorded used in 2010 (code C) . The boxed version first appeared in 2011 (code D). Later date codes may exist.

As a matter of interest, does the code indicate the company name?

If so, TWCU could perhaps be Tallaght West Credit Union, in Dublin?.........no idea of the other.

I collect Ireland business perfins.........this could be a new line of collecting.

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 31 Mar 2020 00:09

Yes Cill Dara. The code under the date line is the company identifier.
As far as I know An Post have no printed list of users available for collectors or the general public.
These codes always include either ee or eee but from 2014 the code begins with EP (Easy Post) followed by the company identifier number.

Erinmania · Post by **Erinmania** » 31 Mar 2020 00:21

It should be remembered that the postal kiosks were very unreliable, continually breaking down and being out of service for long periods until serviced by an independent engineer.
When a roll had to be changed a call would be made to Dublin for someone to install it in the machine. Consequently the kiosks found little favour with the public.

As stated previously the waterways design from Kiosks can be found with dates up to and including 2013 (code F).
So far no flowers or animal and marine series 1 have been recorded to date but series 2 are recorded from 2011 (code D). Being Ireland that does not mean they don't exist.